JLR Win Copyright on C type

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Gfhug
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#21 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Gfhug » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:36 pm

And have Porsche done anything about the 356 Spyder replicas? :shrug:
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

I appreciate both sides of the argument regarding intellectual copyright but feel JLR have been very heavy handed and could have worked with the man to a sensible agreement and not financially ruined him. Especially seeing all those other copies Steve has shown!
Maybe he should have set up his operation in China, we know what they think of copyright :bigrin:

Geoff
Last edited by Gfhug on Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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cactusman
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#22 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by cactusman » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:37 pm

Steve...Copyright..indeed all intellectual property can be traded, licensed and passed on in an inheritance just as actual things can. It is usual in the small print of any employment contract that any invention, design etc produced while working for the company becomes theirs and you relinquish all rights (unless of course you don't and agree with your employer up front). Presumably Malcolm handed his designs to Jaguar cars as was...and the ownership passed to JLR. However it makes no difference to how long copyright lasts for as far as I'm aware....Copyright does lapse and mostly this is 70 years after the death of the creator of the work...musical recordings may be 70 years after they were recorded....not sure. Most copyright cases i would guess are for unauthorised copying of printed matter, images and recorded music. The "Happy birthday to you" song is often cited as an example of copyright gone a bit mad as until 2015 it was held to be copyrighted and thus could only be performed in public (yes...even at a kids party technically) with permission of the copyright holder who exacted a large fee. Which is why in any film made till then you almost never hear that song sung at film birthday parties as the rights holder asked for a vast fee!!! In 2015 the copyright was challenged and the holder, Warner Chappell music lost and had to repay $14 million in royalties....it is now in the public domain....you can sing it to your hearts content now!

Patents lapse after 20 years max in the UK provided you pay the renewal fee to keep the patent in force. Trade marks can be maintained continuously as far as I know although as with patents renewal fees probably apply or the trade mark lapses.

The world of IP is endlessly complex and anyone dabbling should seek the services of a patent, copyright or trademark expert...Which ain't me :P . As the chap in Sweden found out, infringement can become extremely costly...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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christopher storey
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#23 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by christopher storey » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:29 pm

Series1 Stu wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:20 pm
JLR only need one successful action and the rest will probably comply with a finger wag.
I'm not so sure about that. Most of these outfits are not worth tuppence, and JLR may be about to learn the very expensive lesson that obtaining a judgment and order for costs is one thing, but getting it satisfied is another matter altogether . If you are not worth suing you hold most, if not all, of the cards

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Philk
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#24 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Philk » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:09 am

Heuer wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:03 pm
Available to buy later this year, going into full scale production from their factory in Hambach, France:
Image
I have to confess to liking this. For me, the new Defender completely misses the mark in terms of its design intent and has completely ignored the needs (and bank balances) of its core loyal base of followers. The complexity of its systems could leave people high and dry in remote locations if they break and, sadly, the reliability record of its sister cars in the Land-Rover stable does little to inspire confidence. The Grenadier represents what many would have wanted from a Defender replacement.
Phil
1964 S1 3.8 OTS

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Joes66
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#25 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Joes66 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:14 pm

Just noticed this open letter from JLR
https://jec.org.uk/news/2021/jaguar-lan ... g-replicas

I am guessing JLR are trying to stop people from building replicas and selling them on in limited numbers for a profit
There have been a few new companies recently sayng they are going to build limited numbers of replica cars
Maybe JLR have decided enough is enough and have moved to block this trade
Rather than having a go at individuals building one for themselves
But what about kits?
Will the companies building kits that they sell on also be banned?
I know a company for instance that has moulds to build glass fibre c types and others
Can they still make these and sell them on?
Joe
1969 series 2 2+2

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Andyp_67E
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#26 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Andyp_67E » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:21 pm

Also not to be forgotten that JLR have insisted throughout the trial on the Magnussons Ctype that the car has to be destroyed including no doubt original period running gear. A fine and paying the legal fees was not enough for JLR.
Andy
1967 Series 1 4.2 OTS
Leicester, UK

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Durango2k
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#27 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Durango2k » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:27 pm

Would it not be an option to modify it a bit so that it‘s ok, then ?

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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Joes66
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#28 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Joes66 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:57 am

Looks like fir now JLR have copyright on the shape
Can't see how you could change the shape significantly enough for the shape to be different enough not to look like a c type
Or a D type or any other car
Kinda the whole point that it looks like the car you wanted it to replicate
And JLR from whats been said has catalogued over the years all those other companies making replicas by the look of it, because they have sent them all warning letters
What those letters say would be a clue as to what for now JLR intend
Are they saying stop now!, or we will come for you and all the cars you have made in the past?
Imagine having bought a ctype replica last year and then the company you bought it from going to court with JLR
Then a knock at the door some weeks later from an officer and a scrap man
Although JLR have said individuals shouldn't be worried the sword of damacles will for ever more hang over every classic car replica
Including some of those million quid plus cars
1969 series 2 2+2

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Durango2k
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#29 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Durango2k » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:31 am

So if you want a replica its best to choose one made originally from a company that is no more.... say, like Facel....

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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christopher storey
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#30 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by christopher storey » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:49 am

Frankly, having seen the gobbledegook put out yesterday by Bollore, the new CEO who seems to wander around the motor industry , and by the similar Tata man, (which even allowing for the fact that English is not their first language ) is an appalling mixture of meaning less marketing speak and technobabble, I do not hold out much hope for JLR. Sadly , William Lyons must be spinning in his grave, and I feel desperately sorry for all the employees ( as I understand it 2,000 were told their jobs had gone yesterday )

And Joe, I can see no power at all to dispossess people of replicas without an order of the Court against them specifically , and this having already been a PR catastrophe for Jaguar , I hardly see that happening . Even if JLR survive, I think this is likely to be quietly swept under the carpet
Last edited by christopher storey on Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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malcolm
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#31 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by malcolm » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:27 am

:yeahthat: Like all corporate nasties in any industry, it will be solved by time allowing it to die a natural death. Like the "cheating the emissions" scandal. That's gone quiet now even if it did costalot.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#32 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by christopher storey » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:02 pm

For those of you who haven't seen the JLR statement, here are quotes from it extracted by the JEC in its weekly bulletin


“Jaguar Land Rover is unique in the global automotive industry. Designers of peerless models, an unrivalled understanding of the future luxury needs of its customers, emotionally rich brand equity, a spirit of Britishness and unrivalled access to leading global players in technology and sustainability within the wider Tata Group.

“We are harnessing those ingredients today to reimagine the business, the two brands and the customer experience of tomorrow. The Reimagine strategy allows us to enhance and celebrate that uniqueness like never before. Together, we can design an even more sustainable and positive impact on the world around us,” said new CEO Mr Thierry Bolloré.

“We have so many ingredients from within. It is a unique opportunity,” said Mr Bolloré. “Others have to rely solely on external partnerships and compromise, but we have frictionless access that will allow us to lean forward with confidence and at speed.”

Mr N Chandrasekaran, Chairman of Tata Sons, Tata Motors and Jaguar Land Rover Automotive plc commented: “The Reimagine strategy takes Jaguar Land Rover on a significant path of acceleration in harmony with the vision and sustainability priorities of the wider Tata Group. Together, we will help Jaguar realise its potential, reinforce Land Rover’s timeless appeal and collectively become a symbol of a truly responsible business for its customers, society and the planet.”

Mr Bolloré concluded: “As a human-centred company, we can, and will, move much faster and with clear purpose of not just reimagining modern luxury but defining it for two distinct brands. Brands that present emotionally unique designs, pieces of art if you like, but all with connected technologies and responsible materials that collectively set new standards in ownership. We are reimagining a new modern luxury by design.”

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mgcjag
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#33 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by mgcjag » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:38 pm

Is it just me but i have no idea what all that means :shrug: .....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Heuer
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#34 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Heuer » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:06 pm

Corporate bullshit written by a PR agency.
David Jones
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cactusman
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#35 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by cactusman » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:35 pm

:yeahthat:
Trying to imagine what Sir William Lyons would have thought reading that meaningless corporate waffle.....could just as well apply to making washing powder....
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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288gto
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#36 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by 288gto » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:21 am

Heuer wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:06 pm
Corporate bullshit written by a PR agency.
It's the "frictionless access" and "lean forward" that worries me. :shock:
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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cactusman
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#37 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by cactusman » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:12 am

Afraid it is a perfect PR piece to try out your bullshit bingo game. Not exclusive to JLR...afraid all big corporates and multinationals do it. Lots of big words whose combined effect is utterly meaningless....keeps armies of otherwise useless individuals in employment though! Right now they would be better off retraining as doctors and nurses
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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Joes66
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#38 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Joes66 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:36 am

Load of woke garbage that
I am surprised there is no mention of the global catastrophe or JLR single handedly savings urangutans
Seriously what a load of old cobblers
1969 series 2 2+2

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chrisfell
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#39 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by chrisfell » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:22 am

“ It's the "frictionless access" and "lean forward" that worries me.”

There’s an image I’d prefer not to have on a Sunday morning.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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Simon P
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#40 Re: JLR Win Copyright on C type

Post by Simon P » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:11 am

I somehow feel that "Grace, Space, Pace" was a far more succinct and readily-appreciated synopsis of the Jaguar brand.......

:roll:
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1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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