The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Talk about E-Types here

Bobb
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#61 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Bobb » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:37 pm

You folks are lucky as your MOT (we have a 'safety check' in Canada) is done by real mechanics who are likely sympathetic to the cars. Here it's done at almost any private garage and many of them employ just some guy who's not a real mechanic to do them. They are signed off by the one (and usually only) licensed mechanic in the shop. Some of these clowns have a vocabulary limited to,
"Needs tie rod ends-or ball joints".
A few years back, one of these goofballs, after spending a lot of time on the car and scratching his head, grabbed something in the front suspension (ball ends in the steering rack maybe?), yanked it up and down and said that it was too loose. I showed him the Bentley manual (which I always carry to safety checks) where it says that 3 thou(?) play is allowed. He huffed and said that he'd been working on cars for twenty-some years and he knew that it was more than 3 thou clearance. I exploded in his face with,
"And your arm is calibrated!!?? I've been working on effing aircraft for over thirty years and you're full of effing sh*t!!!"
I drove the short distance home, grabbed a dial indicator with a magnetic base and went back. I stormed in and hauled the owner outside where I set up the gauge on the suspension part and showed him the well-within-specs clearance.
The psuedo-mechanic was standing there and went in with a huff as the owner wrote out the certificate and stuck the passed sticker on my window. I reported the incident to the department of transport but don't think they did much. I've since found a local guy who knows older cars and is quite easy to deal with. He won't pass anything dangerous and I always let him take the car for a little drive even though it's not required.
An interesting aside to all this is that most folks know a place where you can get almost anything past the check. You drive in with a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes in the trunk (boot) and half a hour later the car is outside with a shiny new sticker on the windscreen and the smokes and beer are gone. As you can guess, there's a lot of garbage on the roads here. We have an even one million K's of paved roads with very few cops to patrol them so it's rare for someone to get caught.

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Hugo
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#62 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:50 pm

The maximum allowable play in a king-pin on a commercial vehicle in the UK is approx 3/8" (or 10mm since we went all Napoleonic) at the edge of the tyre on a 22.5" wheel. In practice, even 1/4" play looks horrendous to the naked eye. I was chatting to one of the Dept of Transport technical officers one time, and he told me they actually took the bush out of a king-pin assembly, and it was still within limits!
Trouble is we still find examiners who can't tell the difference between a king-pin & a wheel bearing when looking for the play. I could write a book about my experiences with these people.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Hugo
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#63 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:55 pm

mark10337 wrote:and how will we track the number of vehicles of type X still on the road if there is no MOT (and perhaps as a consequence no SORN) requirement.
There will still be a requirement to tax the vehicle (free of charge) or to declare SORN (off-road notification).
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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JagWaugh
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#64 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by JagWaugh » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:06 am

Bobb wrote: An interesting aside to all this is that most folks know a place where you can get almost anything past the check. You drive in with a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes in the trunk (boot) and half a hour later the car is outside with a shiny new sticker on the windscreen and the smokes and beer are gone. As you can guess, there's a lot of garbage on the roads here. We have an even one million K's of paved roads with very few cops to patrol them so it's rare for someone to get caught.
The MOT here in Switzerland is pretty tough. It's run by the govt, and performed at their facilities. It includes pretty much everything - a suspension table tests brake balance, handbrake, shocks, shake table on front suspension, tire size, wheel size (and markings). They'll fail you for something as minor as condensation in a tail lamp/turnsignal, or a squealing PAS pump/belt. Many expats find this terribly unfair. One of the things I notice when I go on vacation is the noise of traffic - a few years ago I was walking downtown in Washington DC at rush hour, the sound of the rusted out exhausts, shot wheel bearings, and brakes worn down to the squeal warning was positively deafening.

For a classic which has been imported it's even more in depth - they check that your safety belts have the right labels, lamps are all the right colour and marking and will reject the "classic" designation (test is only every 5th year, lower insurance, tax) for things like a 123 ignition, steel braided flex lines, or non period upgrades. They're ok with changes that make the car compatible with modern traffic (like an efan on the rad).

Sometimes it's a bother, but I'd rather have a stringent test than a "drive by" MOT.

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Mark Gordon
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#65 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Mark Gordon » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Bobb wrote: An interesting aside to all this is that most folks know a place where you can get almost anything past the check. You drive in with a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes in the trunk (boot) and half a hour later the car is outside with a shiny new sticker on the windscreen and the smokes and beer are gone. As you can guess, there's a lot of garbage on the roads here. We have an even one million K's of paved roads with very few cops to patrol them so it's rare for someone to get caught.
When I was stationed in Germany in the late '70's, U.S. military personnel had to have their cars safety inspected as per the German standards, but as a convenience to GI's, we had on base inspection stations that were done by German nationals. (I'm not sure whether they were employees of the U.S. military or Germany.)
At the Nurnberg facility where I was stationed, it was common knowledge that the local inspector had a bit of a drinking problem and booze left on the front seat would guarantee passing inspection. He really liked what we from the dental clinic would leave him, a case of alcohol based Cepacol mouthwash, because he could drink it on the job and not get in trouble for drinking. I used that ruse to get my clunker with rusted Macpherson strutt mounts through inspection a few months before I left Germany after dropping it off at the junk yard. Cepacol isn't too bad tasting for a mouthwash, but I can't imagine drinking the stuff!
Mark

67 OTS 1E14988, 2015 Camry XSE

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Hugo
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#66 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:52 pm

As they say, for every higher wall there is a taller ladder :wink:
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Hugo
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#67 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:02 am

I just came across ths snippet;

"Increase in MOT exempt cars would be “concern”

More than 2,000 members of the public took part in a Government consultation about the scheme and 56 per cent opposed the plan saying vehicles travelling on public roads should have the annual safety check.
In response the DfT argued that cars more than 40 years old are often kept in good condition by owners, and not used regularly enough to warrant an MOT."

I cannot see a single argument in favour of exempting older cars from the MoT. Neither can a majority of people either, if the sham 'consultation' is anything to go by. So what is the government up to?
On a personal level I welcome the exemption, but if asked I would have to vote against the exemption. Very public-spirited of me, n'est-ce pas?
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Simon P
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#68 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Simon P » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:04 am

I say keep it. Even by the standards of today the E-type still accelerates like a scalded cat and will go on to a 'genuine' <ahem> 150mph. For my own peace of mind, not to mention that of my fellow road users, it's good to know that in doing so it's subject to, and has passed, the same test of roadworthiness as every other vehicle out there.

Besides, an MOT only costs £35, and there's a certain smug sense of pride that comes from having your 50 year old jalopy sail through without so much as a single Advisory, whilst you neighbour's 7 or 8 year old bit of 'modern' technology comes out with a list of faults as long as your arm......

:bigrin:
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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Hugo
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#69 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:34 pm

Simon P wrote:......... whilst you neighbour's 7 or 8 year old bit of 'modern' technology comes out with a list of faults as long as your arm......
Not only that, but 'modern' vehicles often throw up major design flaws and also intractable issues that nobody can resolve. A friend in Forida bought a new Ford F150 pick up. Very expensive vehicle. He got 70 miles and it conked out. Dealership recovered it, but could not find what was wrong. Last he heard they had the body off the chassis and engineers down from Ford to try to figure out (unsuccessfully) what was wrong. He told them to stuff it and bought another F150 from another dealership. That one has a weird vibration at idle - feels like a misfire but it's actually the transmission. Again, nobody can figure out what it is.
Caterpillar diesels stopped making engines for road-going vehicles, due to the crazy EPA regulations. At one point they were being fined $2,000 for every engine they sold. But their latest engines, if you look on the various internet forums, are plagued with computer faults that the owners spend thousands of Dollars trying to fix with no success. Pre-computer trucks are in high demand because they are so much more reliable. And when it's your living, that is important!
In Europe it's the same story with Volvo and M.A.N. engines - they routinely fail when just out of warranty.
Give me the old stuff any day.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Tony
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#70 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Tony » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:04 pm

I am assuming most E Type owners are interested in cars and have some mechanical knowledge. If they need an mot to tell them their cars are not road worthy then by all means get a gareage to check it out for you. I suspect most E type owner do have a basic knowledge of their cars and an mot will only tell them what they already know. I do not feel I need an mot to tell me there is a problem with my car and if I choose to Ignor it then i will only have myself to blame.
Just another view to be argued for or against.
Tony (E typed)

1962 E Type Series 1 Roadster (OTS)

Tony

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Hugo
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#71 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:28 pm

You could use the same argument against speed limits. I find them un-necessarily restrictive, but on the other hand they protect me from the morons whose natural urge is to drive at or beyond them limit of their skills. On the other hand, such people are unlikely to be deterred by speed limits anyway, so that's probably the end of that argument.
The bigger issue is that speed limits as currently applied are not about safety - they are about control. Drive at the speed the government tells you and everything will be fine. Do 31 in a 30 limit and you are an anti-social homicidal maniac who deserves to be locked up.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Simon P
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#72 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Simon P » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:43 am

Tony wrote:I am assuming most E Type owners .... have some mechanical knowledge.
Not me - I am completely mechanically inept! :bigrin:
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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chrisfell
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#73 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by chrisfell » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:26 pm

I wonder how many E-Type owners actually are comfortable with their own mechanical prowess such that they could self test their cars and correct or arrange the correction of any faults they find? From my experience of touring many miles with E-Typers of all stripes I'd suggest the proportion is quite small.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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adam
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#74 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by adam » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:24 pm

I would like to see the MOT continued even though i look after my car myself.I treat it a bit like a double check with a fresh pair off eyes and to check brakes and hand brake are working at there best.I think insurance companies might want some kind of test of road worthiness in the future? perhaps there is some motive behind all this, only time will tell

Adam

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neal herridge
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#75 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by neal herridge » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:25 pm

You will still be able to take your E-type & have it tested if you want to.
When they stopped testing pre 1960 cars I still had my XK120 tested every year.
Just had my E-type MOT yesterday ( passed) & the tester confirmed just bring it back next year.
I know some people will not bother & stop but it is the owners legal duty to keep the car roadworthy .
Neal.

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154WHU
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#76 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by 154WHU » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:18 pm

Hi
Wasnt looking for this thread but found it due to brake pipes,I do think a MOT is a very wise idea,as a guy who has been in the motor trade all his life, who has a 1960 mk2 saloon,Said that it is better to have someone to look at your car with impartial eyes. Most of us have rose tinted specs on when it comes to our babys, I know I do .i know you can still get a MOT for an older car but I dont think it is binding.
On the subject on brake pipes, I have used copper brake pipes, but they can work harden and then split,
Any thoughts would be great.
Many thanks in advance.

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Hugo
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#77 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:44 pm

I believe copper was used before the War. Then they changed to steel for the reasons you cited. That was before they started putting salt on the road, then the salt rotted the steel. I only use Kunifer - copper/nickel/steel - best of all worlds.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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