E-type market - are cars selling?

Talk about E-Types here
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TrevS
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#1 E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by TrevS » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:56 pm

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone had any idea if E-types are currently selling and the current state of the market? I've had my series 1 4.2 FHC for sale for a few months and haven't had much interest. Are cars selling or is the market quite flat at the moment? Also does anyone have any recommendations on companies that might be able to help with the sale of my car?

Thanks

Trevor
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#2 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by mgcjag » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:10 pm

If you really want to sell then you need to show it to the widest market... https://www.carandclassic.co.uk and ebay sell it privately so it can be offered cheaper..saving the dealers commission....you will need to weed out the time wasters and chancers but you can get a good idea if someone is a genuine buyer over the phone...Steve
Ps..no test drives untill you are fairly confident you have someone that wants it and a price is discussed
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#3 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by tim wood » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:19 pm

I used carandclassic for my 2+2 last year. The results were surprising. Phone rang continuously and sold immediately.

Price has to be right. Some people said I underpriced but I think I had it about right. Depends I suppose if you want to wait or a fairly rapid sale. Just like house buying really !
Offers from those on the forum were few and far between and below my asking price.
Series 1 2+2 now sold
Series 1.5 OTS in opalescent maroon with beige interior now back home from California and in my garage !

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#4 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by christopher storey » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:50 pm

My trade contacts seem to think the market for all classics is quite difficult at the moment . This seems to be borne out by the number of unsold cars there have been at recent auctions, and E types in particular seem to have been quite hard hit . I think patience is called for . Certainly, the wider marketing you can do, the better, although I am not persuaded that Ebay is the way to go with cars of this value

Having looked at your " McGurk" posting, the car looks a very nice one and should be a seller at the right price. Whether what you are asking is the right price really only you can judge . The one thing that from a personal point of view I think might be holding it back is that Opal Silver is probably not the most widely sought after colour . That perhaps reinforces my point about patience

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#5 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by TrevS » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:45 pm

Thanks everyone, some useful information. The feedback I’ve had from the dealer seems to be that the market is quite slow and that it’s just going to take time which is what you are saying. I will check where they are marketing the car to see if any channels haven’t been considered and see what they say.

In terms of price, I have gone on the dealer recommendation as to what they think it’s worth and can sell it for. I’ve said I will consider reviewing the price but they seem to think pricing isn’t the main issue and no enquiries have been concerned with the price.

The main issue I seem to have is the fact the car isn’t numbers matching. At some point the block and cylinder head were replaced, this hasn’t stopped enquiries but raised some questions on when the change occurred and at what mileage. Unfortunately we don’t have any back story on the engine change but we know it has been replaced with the correct block. It’s a real shame we have this gap in the history as otherwise I have history dating back to the early 70’s. Whether it’s struggling to find a buyer because of the block I don’t know, but it is priced as one of the cheapest series 1 UK cars on the market so we’ve tried to market the car that reflects the condition and the fact it isn’t numbers matching.

Trev
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#6 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by christopher storey » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 am

I really don't think that the engine change is likely to be a feature which makes the difference between a sale or no sale, although it might make a moderate difference to the price achieved . There is a fair amount of uncertainty about at the moment , and perhaps more to the point the big supply of borrowed money which fuelled the big price rises over the last few years has tended to dry up .

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#7 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by abowie » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:34 am

I'm struggling to swap my 3.8 OTS for a Ferrari 308 GTB.

How's that for a first world problem!
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#8 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Barry » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:37 pm

I’m afraid matching numbers matters on cars over £100k. I tried to sell an immaculate, upgraded and restored 1962 S1 FHC last year with non matching block. It probably made a £25,000 difference. The market is slow at the moment, cars over £110k are difficult to sell, and then that depends upon the model and year of course. Series 1 being the easiest to sell, and at the bottom end 2+2 cars move reasonably quickly just to get into E-type ownership. You only need to look at the adverts on Places like Piston Heads to see how quickly cars are moving. Dealers seem to be advertising the same cars month after month. Right at the very top with people like Eagle, the market is buoyant with wealthy people wanting the very best and prepared to pay for it. Sorry, that is not very helpful, but at least an honest appraisal of the current market. It all goes in cycles, as we know only too well. Brexit is certainly not helping.....

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#9 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Durango2k » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:43 pm

Well, if Brexit lets the pound drop to .80 Euros, then, lots of Euro people will see Britain in a different way...

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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#10 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by christopher storey » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:16 am

More likely to destroy the Euro in my view

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#11 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by TrevS » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:23 pm

Barry wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:37 pm
I’m afraid matching numbers matters on cars over £100k.
Well mine is priced at £94,800. Seems to be one of the cheapest UK RHD series 1 cars for sale. So do you think price is right and I just have to be patient?

Trev
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#12 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by mgcjag » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:58 pm

Hi Trevor...it really all depends on what you want.....and your circumstances....if you need the £94k than make sure its seen by as many potential buyers and wait for one.....it you need the cash for another project that may increase in value if you wait to buy it then maybe you can take less and get on with your new project....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#13 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by timhum » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:19 pm

Trevor, I'm sorry but I don't know anything about your car but my thoughts are as follows. If I were in the market to buy a car costing in the region of £100k or more I would want a detailed service, restoration and rebuild history. Matching numbers also seem to be of great relevance to many buyers as are original jaguar colours. Pictures of the work and notes of who did it would be essential. A 'home restored' car might give me some concern in that there are many enthusiastic owners but not many that can do a really professional job. I know from personal experience that many horrors in a car are not easily detected particularly with the metal work. This could be why many buyers go to the acknowledged experts and are prepared to pay them top prices for their cars.The advert should therefore be very clear in verifying the provenance of all work carried out in addition to an accurate description of the vehicle. If the car fits all these criteria it can then a no sale can only be down to price. I found the score sheet published in Peter Crespin's buyers guide a great asset in determining the quality of the car and hence what it might be worth.
Tim
Tim
1965 S1 fhc

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#14 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Barry » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 pm

Very well put, Tim. I agree. One further point which always denotes an excellent restoration is the attention to shut lines and panel fit. If those are correct it does a lot for values. Even some of the well known restoration people don’t always get it right. The interior is the next item. A perfect interior, lightly used with seats showing properly shaped seats. (No baggy leather or flat shaped seats) Otherwise take a hit of between £10k and £12k. Provenance, matching numbers, reputable restorer, original colours, excellent panel fit, and lovely interior, well prepared engine bay, suspension and underside. That should sell well. Exact value, someone in the know needs to see your car. Like property, there is a price to sell, or the Over ambitious value where no one is interested. A car on the market for too long is not good news.

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#15 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Jeremy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:12 pm

Like, for example, the 1965 FHC with 10.5k miles that Hexagon have had on sale at £249,995 for 3 years....
Jeremy
1967 S1 4.2 FHC

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#16 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by MCY44H » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:55 am

Hi Trevor,

I've been tracking auction data of roadworthy cars (projects and barn finds are excluded) for the last six years. The data I've collected suggests that S1 Coupé prices surged to a high in 2015 and broadly held for the following two years before dropping back this year.

2015 - Top 20% of the market £124,700 and above, Median (50%) £79,685, Bottom 20% of the market £55,184 and below (40 cars)

2018 - Top 20% of the market £90,900 and above, Median (50%) £53,122, Bottom 20% of the market £44,544 and below (14 cars)

The smaller number of cars that sold so far this year in part reflects seller's reserves not being met, but I believe that there may also be a shortage of good examples coming to the auction houses.

Please be aware, that auction house buyer's and seller's commissions need to be removed from these numbers above. This could reduce the sellers proceeds by as much as 20%, depending on the auction house.

The total number of S1 coupés sold by 38 auction houses in the years 2014-2017 are 30,40,41 and 33, but only 14 in the comparable period this year.

Looking at the whole E-Type fleet, from the period 1 Jan to 22 August, the auction houses I track sold 223 cars in 2016, 242 in 2017 but only 150 in the same period in 2018. Most of the six cylinder variants are showing a softening in prices. This has been going since about March. But it's not universal. The V12s are doing very well. V12 2+2s have increased in price markedly this year and the better V12 OTS's are holding or increasing their prices as well. The S1 coupé and the S1.5 Roadster prices seem to be the weakest at the moment compared to previous years.

I fear that you may be on the receiving end of these market trends. But this is just data. At the end of the day the car is worth what they buyer and seller agree it is worth. Best of luck with the sale.

I hope that this is useful.

Mickey44
1966 Series I 2+2 (RHD), Manual, Carmen Red
1970 Series II OTS (LHD) Fast Road spec, BRG

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#17 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by lopena » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:59 pm

For what it's worth: the E-type market here in the U.S. remains very strong.

Just minutes ago a very pretty, fully-restored 1966 OTS was hammered sold at a whopping $325,000 (versus an auction estimate of $220-260k) at the Gooding & Co. Pebble Beach auction.

Yes, it's just one data point, but still...

Alan
New Jersey

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#18 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Sixcarbs » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:03 pm

lopena wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:59 pm
For what it's worth: the E-type market here in the U.S. remains very strong.

Just minutes ago a very pretty, fully-restored 1966 OTS was hammered sold at a whopping $325,000 (versus an auction estimate of $220-260k) at the Gooding & Co. Pebble Beach auction.

Yes, it's just one data point, but still...

Alan
New Jersey
Yes, here is the car. $357,500 with buyer's premium. I am happy and shocked at the same time. Here is the car. Perhaps someone else can tell me why this car brought so much. It's not in its original colors, exterior or interior, it does not have the correct rear end.

https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1966- ... oadster-6/

I have looked at all of the Series 1 prices from Monterey and frankly they seemed pretty solid for nice cars.
Jay

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#19 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by MCY44H » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:44 pm

I think Iopena is right about the high-end US market this weekend. Bonhams look to have also sold four E-Types at Quail Lodge for strong money, notwithstanding the weak pound. RM, Russo and Stelle and Goodings results not yet published online, but I don't see any E-Types in the 'cars still for sale' sections which suggests buyers and sellers expectations were matched.

That Goodings car is beautiful, but so is this one that Bonhams sold for $235k.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24811/lot/10/
1966 Series I 2+2 (RHD), Manual, Carmen Red
1970 Series II OTS (LHD) Fast Road spec, BRG

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#20 Re: E-type market - are cars selling?

Post by Sixcarbs » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:47 pm

MCY44H wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:44 pm
I don't see any E-Types in the 'cars still for sale' sections which suggests buyers and sellers expectations were matched.
The major auction houses only accept E-Types as No Reserve at the Monterey auctions.

Mecum will allow a reserve and they actually had one that did not sell, high bid $200,000.
Jay

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