The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

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Hugo
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#21 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:45 pm

I can't remember who it was unfortunately, and I was paraphrasing and probably taking a bit of license in the process, but what the EU official actually said was that 'driving must not become a form of individual expression'. Everything about the EU militates against every form of individualism. 'Harmonisation' and 'equality' are the orders of the day, and in their warped view of the world, if we all drove around in nice little Euroboxes we would not only be giving employment to lots of little Europeans, but saving the planet in the process.
You see, I believed Edward Heath when he assured us that we were joining a free-trade bloc, that there would be "no loss of essential national sovereignty", and that the rulings of the European Court of Justice would only affect obscure trading issues. Accordingly I voted in 1975 to remain in the EEC.
I am not so trusting of politicans today. I am quite certain, though I can't prove it until it happens, that they would love to force our cars off the road, so I am opposed to anything that singles them out as a separate group, by, for example, exempting them from Vehicle Excise Duty or the MoT requirement.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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#22 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:47 pm

cactusman wrote: ....we cannot ignore the directive...Ironic really as we are now leaving the EU....funny old world...
We're not going to leave - they won't let us! You can count on it.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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cactusman
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#23 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by cactusman » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:31 am

While I think leaving has more negatives than positives, Hugo has a point. What we are leaving is not what we voted to join. I do think we will leave and the recent pronouncements from Mr Juncker make me think maybe the leavers were right after all.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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#24 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by christopher storey » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:28 am

Just to answer Hugo's query about testing, if a vehicle is out of MOT, then for it to be legally driven for another test, the regulations require

1. The test to be by prior appointment

2.At the nearest MOT station to the place where the vehicle is kept

3. To be driven by the shortest practicable route !!

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#25 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:08 am

We never did vote to join! Heath took us in on the basis of what in later life he admitted were out and out lies. Wilson held a referendum on his (Cameron-style) 're-negotiation' in 1975.
Bear in mind that every previous referendum vote that has gone against the EU (and that's all of them!) has been ignored; Denmark voted against Maastricht and were told to vote again and get it right next time; ditto Ireland when they voted against Nice; France and the Netherlands rejected the 'Constitution for Europe' and were simply ignored (and the plans for referenda throughout the EU were hastily abandoned - including our own); Ireland (for the second time!) were ordered to vote again on Lisbon when they rejected it. And so on. On each of these occasions, the respective treaties were killed stone dead by the rejection of a single Member State, but like vampires (or is it zombies?) they just will not stay dead.
If our referendum result is implemented, it will be the first time in the history of the EEC/EC/EU that the will of the people has been respected.
The EU has to punish us for leaving. There can be no 'trade deal' between Britain and the EU. The fact that this will hurt European industry more than it will hurt us will not bother them one bit. Otherwise there will be a stampede for the exit, and their dream of the last fifty years and more will collapse like a deflated balloon when they are only inches away from their ultimate goal, as Mr Juncker kindly spelled out for us only the other day.
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#26 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:10 am

christopher storey wrote:Just to answer Hugo's query about testing, if a vehicle is out of MOT, then for it to be legally driven for another test, the regulations require

1. The test to be by prior appointment

2.At the nearest MOT station to the place where the vehicle is kept

3. To be driven by the shortest practicable route !!
You don't happen to know where this is stated I suppose? I was planning to pick up my Carver One from North Wales and drive it to an MoT in Sussex, but if you're right that might not work!
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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Herzeg
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#27 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Herzeg » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:26 am

Hugo

taken from the askthepolice website

quote

The law makes no mention as to how far you can go but we would suggest that the distance is kept as short as possible because even though you are exempt from having a valid MOT certificate in the circumstances described above, if you are stopped by the police you could still be prosecuted for any defective parts on your vehicle e.g. exhaust, brakes and tyres etc. Additionally:

if you call in at shops etc. on your way to the MOT, it may be held that you are using the vehicle for other purposes and the above exemption won't apply;
the further you travel the more likelihood there is of your vehicle triggering an ANPR camera and you being stopped.

unquote

John
1969 S2 OTS

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#28 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:41 am

Aha! So it's just a 'suggestion'? My Carver One has just come from Italy and currently has a Florida plate on the back. It's not even registered in the UK, and can't be until I get it MoT'd. That should confuse them :wink:
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#29 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Series1 Stu » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:50 am

Hugo, you're such an anarchist! I bet you wear a black arm band on Guy Fawkes night.

By your reckoning, we'll soon be living in a Mad Max style dystopian state where we all fit snow ploughs and machine guns to our E Types and race about in search of petrol stations that have ethanol free reserves of unleaded.

Nobody wants a nanny state and I really resent what the European Union has become but whoever it was that first said "a nation gets the government it deserves" needs to revise that to "a continent gets the government it deserves".

I keep telling my friend who lives in China that, one day, I will meet him at the Sino-German border.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
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#30 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by mgcjag » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:35 am

Ok Guys.....yet another topic thats changeing subject...lets keep it just about Mot,s......dont forget this is the E type forum.......lets not drift into politics, religion or anything that isnt directly related to the original post.....Ive had members telling me that they are getting fed up with this constant drift.......just enjoy the forum ... Steve
PS I dont want to start deleting irrelevant posts....
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#31 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Vonkie » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:57 am

Hugo wrote:
Insurers are obliged to pay out. If, however, you have an accident caused by, for example, faulty brakes, and if that fault would have caused the car to fail an MoT test, they may sue you to get their money back. I've never heard of it actually happening though. If, on the other hand, you have an accident caused purely by your bad driving, they cannot then sue you if they find a mechanical fault which did not contribute to the accident. Or rather, they can sue you but would be unlikely to succeed.
Not so, Hugo. A common warranty in many motor policies is some or other variant of roadworthiness. Such a warranty entitles the insurer to repudiate a claim when the warranty is breached. Breach of the warranty requires nothing more than use of the vehicle in an unroadworthy condition (or whatever else the specific formulation of the warranty requires). Here is the killer: There is no requirement of a causal link between the loss and the breach of warranty. This is different from an exclusion framed in terms of cause of loss ("we will not pay for loss caused by..." etc).

Extreme examples abound in the case law (like a tyre tread warranty breached when the loss has nothing to do with tyre condition - even in a theft!) In most Commonwealth jurisdictions, the legislatures have responded by at least requiring any warranty to be material to the risk. But a roadworthy one easily meets that test.

No doubt classic car endorsements or policies will need to take account of exemptions from MOT or other requirements. Brokers might be on the hook if they place cover with roadworthy warranties in relation to cars no longer tested for roadworthiness.

By the way, I worry about a knee-jerk ban of the internal combustion engine being applied also to older cars. One does not need to be too sceptical to worry that MOT exemptions would make such a ban an easier sell politically.
Frank
1963 3.8 FHC

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#32 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:02 pm

I have always understood that an insurer is obligated to meet any claims from a third party. They can then try to recoup their losses from the policyholder if he is found to be in breach of their terms and conditions.
Has this changed, or have I been wrong all these years?
Not that it makes any material difference, since, if the insurers repudiate the claim, the third party will just sue the policyholder anyway.
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#33 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Vonkie » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:38 pm

Hi Hugo

Perhaps we are just talking past one another. Someone mentioned roadworthiness clauses in insurance policies as still relevant despite possible exemption from MOT requirements, and I was responding only to the part of your post saying the insurer is obliged to pay out if the lack of roadworthiness did not contribute to the loss.

The insurer has a right of recourse against the other driver that caused the collision, to the extent that the insurer indemnified its insured (the insurer takes over the claim or 'subrogates' and sues the third party in the name of the insured). Having indemnified is a prerequisite to being able to subrogate. If the insurer repudiates, say because of breach of a warranty, the insured retains his right to sue the wrongdoing third party for his own benefit. As between insured and third party, whether the insured has been indemnified or not is irrelevant. The only practical relevance is that the third party faces the insured as nominal plaintiff in the case he was indemnified, with the insurer as 'real' plaintiff, whereas the third party faces the insured as nominal and real plaintiff if the insurer did not indemnify.
Frank
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#34 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by driver » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:49 pm

Why not just keep life simple and keep our pride and joy MOTed!
we all now it makes good sense
v12 etype 2+2

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#35 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Dave K » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:30 pm

So with the end of the MOT for vehicles over 40 years old it must mean that they will no longer have to be SORN'd?

As other have said I will continue to have mine MOT'd.

Dave

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#36 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Nickleback » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:48 pm

I will also keep MOT's being done on my car, but more importantly will keep getting a full pre- MOT service inspection check prior to the MOT to ensure the car is in the best roadworthy condition as well for my own "piece of mind" and of course for its history file which says a lot about the owner and how the car was looked after :bigrin:
How many times have MOT's missed or let things go through that shouldn't have :?: :policeblue:
Mike,
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#37 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by mystery type » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:54 pm

So with the end of the MOT for vehicles over 40 years old it must mean that they will no longer have to be SORN'd?
Likewise, I thought the idea of having to have a tax disc, was to ensure the car was MOTed, and insured.
If the vehicle is excempt from an MOT whats the point of road tax?

What about the limited mileage insurance polices, my insurers can check my mileage by the MOT record.
They can no longer do this. :scratchheadyellow:
Paul 1967 S1 2+2

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#38 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by paulsco » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:03 pm

And what about registering imported E-Types?

My car can't be registered with the DVLA until it has an MOT, which it hasn't because I am still restoring it.

Does this mean I can just go ahead and get a registration number after the changes?

Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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#39 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Hugo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:31 pm

paulsco wrote:And what about registering imported E-Types?
My car can't be registered with the DVLA until it has an MOT, which it hasn't because I am still restoring it.
Does this mean I can just go ahead and get a registration number after the changes?
Paul
I'm in the same boat. My car is a US import, and if it weren't for the fact that the clutch was slipping so badly I would be driving it now. Taking the engine/gearbox out has progressed to a full rebuild. When my pile of bits returns to being a complete car I will have to register it. By then, by the look of things, it won't need an MoT (it's 1971).
So the answer to your question must be 'yes'. Just get the VIN checked by the DVLA & register it.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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#40 Re: The end for the MOT for vehicles of historic interest

Post by Gfhug » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:53 pm

mgcjag wrote:Ok Guys.....yet another topic thats changeing subject...lets keep it just about Mot,s......dont forget this is the E type forum.......lets not drift into politics, religion or anything that isnt directly related to the original post.....Ive had members telling me that they are getting fed up with this constant drift.......just enjoy the forum ... Steve
PS I dont want to start deleting irrelevant posts....
Steve, well said, the forum is losing some if the pleasure I and others have appreciated and benefitted from. It isn't Facebook or some other blogging website. Let's get back it to how it was, please!

Geoff
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S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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