Champion WCX 600 bow tie caps

[cactusman]

Hopefully one of the usual suppliers will pick up on this..maybe Julian Barratt at SNGB.

The car ran rough again yesterday. A quick test revealed yet another 5000 ohm cap was open circuit...millions of ohms. I have spares. I took another unused and still sealed in bubble plastic. Quick test....OPEN CIRCUIT. A second spare was 5200 ohms and is fitted...misfire gone.

So here is the gripe. I had an original, functional but very tatty cap. I dismantled it....a one way trip. The resistor is a carbon slug. Very crude as resistors go but VERY robust. I dismantled the fake copy. Lovely brass plug clip but this time a metallized ceramic resistor. Not fit for purpose...they arc between turns of the scribed surface metallization and eventually fail. I have had three fail on the car plus a dud out of the box.

The appeal....remanufacture the cap to original spec with a carbon slug resistor as the current reproduction parts are NOT fit for purpose...I wait with hopeful anticipation...

And if your car suddenly develops a misfire test the caps. Anything above about 10000 ohms and they are bin food

[mgcjag]

Hi Julian....if you want something done then you need to go direct to the suppliers....they may pick up on you post but may not.....i know that SNGB now have a quality control department....I have been in contact with them and followed up and resolved issues....so you best course of action it take it up and follow through to a resolution... Steve

[Series1 Stu]

That's speaks volumes. I've been buying rubbish from SNGB (and others, I must add) for near on 20 years and they've only just got a quality department.......

[cactusman]

Will do Steve. Just to make it clear...my caps did not come from SNGB...however having got them from two other suppliers I suspect all the copy caps currently available are the same and are rubbish. I will drop Julian Barrett a message as I know SNGB are looking to improve the quality of bits....champion plug caps are one they might look at...

[Heuer]

SNGB and others simply retail the Champion produced plug caps usually in Champion boxes. It would be illegal to retail copies with the Champion logo as the rights to it reside with them. The Green Spark Plug Company Ltd sell genuine Champion caps according to their web site.

[cactusman]

Thanks Heuer. Have had a look. Afraid i suspect they will be the reproduction copies. Everything on their pics looks identical to what others supply. I'd be willing to waste a fiver and buy one to saw open. I'd wager a metal film resistance would be inside. I have found a NOS in line resistance for £1 (i got two ) at an auto jumble which I suspect is a carbon composition type so I shall fit that and use non resistance caps.

[mgcjag]

Hi Julian...would it be worth calling and discussing with them....they seem a decent company...they may want to get it wright once someone points out the problem.... Steve

[cactusman]

Will do...but if they just supply them there is probably little they can do. I shall let you know if I get any more news...J

[cactusman]

Update. Spoke to a delightful chap at the Green Spark Plug co. They too have had issues with the caps. The chap did say there was more than one company making them so maybe there are fakes about. He also said that Champion were due to release "a new batch" but they had yet to see them. I told him about the ceramic resistor issue and he said he'd call when they get this new batch and let me know what resistance they use...They will saw one open and see...so watch this space but mean time avoid them like the plague...

[mgcjag]

Good update Julian...thanks... Steve

[angelw]

Steve Wrote:

if you want something done then you need to go direct to the suppliers....they may pick up on you post but may not.....i know that SNGB now have a quality control department....I have been in contact with them and followed up and resolved issues....so you best course of action it take it up and follow through to a resolution... Steve

Hello Steve,
That doesn't always work.
After Market Centre Consoles and Radio Fascia Panels for S3 cars are a rubbish fit. Following are pictures of the same feature on an Original and After Market Centre Console I sent to SNGB to show the problem.





According to SNGB, the supplier of the part say that their re-manufactured part is the same as the original. Clearly the pictures I took must have captured a profound optical illusion, and the fact that I have to modify and have reupholstered, pristine Radio Fascia Panels, to have them fit the Console, is obviously a figment of my imagination.

Regards,

Bill

[abowie]

Update. Spoke to a delightful chap at the Green Spark Plug co.

This is who I get my caps from. I use a generic NGK cap.
http://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-ngk-none-r ... -8710.html

[cactusman]

Thanks Andrew. Yes...I have replaced the Champion WCX600 rubbish with Champion PRO0U caps. Think they are intended for motor cycles. Rubber boot. Screw onto copper leads. Non resistor. I have a NOS 15k resistance in the lead from the coil to cap. Went for a run yesterday and the car went like it has not done for a while. Brilliant.

[abowie]

FWIW not a new problem.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6846

[johnetype]

This is an area where original is certainly not best. 1960's ignition systems were marginal at best. Start using sports coils, electronic ignition and the questionable quality of some repro parts and you are asking for more than even the original ignition components can sustain.

I understand that folks needing to do concours can't change but for the rest of us who want reliable motoring just moving to the ignition components Jaguar used on the same engine in the early 80's will transform reliability, in particular using 7 or 8mm silicone plug leads. I know the plug caps look different but at least you can put your foot down and enjoy the push in the back without hesitation.

[cactusman]

Have to at least in part, disagree. There was nothing wrong with 1960s ignition systems per se. Billions of miles cumulatively were covered using points and a standard coil. Norman Dewis got from Coventry to Geneva in 11 odd hours using a 1960's set up! Yes....the set up needs maintenance but well set up it is fine. All a 'sports coil' does is generate a higher voltage bigger spark as the primary:secondary ratio is different...and draws more current in the primary as a result which will burn points faster. I will agree that fitting electronic ignition does away with points wear and the condenser but there is absolutely nothing wrong with copper leads and, if the current manufacturer used carbon composition resistors as was used originally, resistor caps. The caps would be fine with carbon composition resistors. They don't and opt for metal film which fail with predictable regularity.

[cactusman]

Quick update. Had an e-mail from Julian Barrett at SNGB this am as he has seen the post. I have sent him some more details of the issue I have with the caps I got....Not from SNGB....and so hopefully he will investigate his stock to see what resistance type is fitted in the ones he sells....watch this space....

And thanks also to Julian and SNGB for responding....

[MarkRado]

After having had problems with the bowties (from different suppliers) for more than 20 years I finally switched to NGK; of course not original (neither were the bowties on my 3.8) and not looking that good, but much cheaper and RELIABLE. In the meantime I look out for a set of original style Champions with the additional suppressors.

[Heuer]

Mark

The WC548 oval caps with ‘Champion’ embossed are available from Steadfast Cycles in the US for $8.75 each: http://www.steadfastcycles.com/cart/ind ... ts_id=6420

The Green Spark Plug Co also sell the oval caps but they do not have the Champion logo.

Ignore the photo on their page which seems to show the caps as being gold and black - just poor photography. I bough six and they are perfect although you will need to put white paint on the ‘Champion’ lettering for the correct effect. I used white primer sprayed on a sheet of wood and then gently pressed the caps into the paint, like a printing kit.

They are un-suppressed and use the correct brass clip so are very reliable. The un-suppressed oval caps were fitted to all cars up until about March 1964 although 'Home Market' (i.e. UK) cars had the optional 5k suppression resistors. Later on Champion released the oval caps with integrated 5k resistors as WCX548. As modern HT leads are suppressed and you can fit BPR 5 resistor spark plugs interference is not a problem.

WCX548:


WC548:


Original plugs with suppressor inserts:



Original Champion WCX600 'bow tie' plug caps appear regularly on eBay - they usually go for about £30 for four. Not sure why anyone would buy the repro ones given the availability of, albeit used, originals

[MarkRado]

Thank you David, your in-depth knowledge is always impressive