#1 Help wanted - Problem with registering in Italy - Mangoletsi Jenvey modifications
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:50 pm
I require some help with registering my 1966 primrose yellow, LHD, 2+2 series 1 E type, imported from the US, in Italy.
The standard procedure is more or less as follows.
1. Register with a Classic Car club.
2. Apply via the club for membership of the “Asifed” = Italian Classic Car association.
3. Simultaneously, apply via the club for an “Asifed certificate of historical relevance”.
4. Bring your car to a mechanic – workshop that needs to provide a declaration – certificate that your car is roadworthy.
Send your documents to Asifed and wait. 2 months. Probably.
Receive above approval/registration with Asifed and then proceed as follows:
5. Have all non Italian language (my car is imported from the US) documents (Us registration documents – invoices…) translated via a “registered Translator”. Basically this person will bring your translated documents to court and in front of a judge, together with a witness, swear that he correctly translated the documents without falsify anything.
6. With all above documents required for registration in Italy, I can go to dedicated MOT station (+/- 40 miles away) where they will check my car, confirm all the paperwork and issue me with the documents to obtain a licence plate.
7. Apply for the licence plate by filling in additional documents, pay the annual classic car road tax and wait for the plate to become available .... So I can go and pick it up (have no idea if I can have the plate mailed)
I think I also require some homologation documents from Jaguar, which I will find out shortly.
If you are still with me, thanks!!
Apart from all of the above costing around 550£-600€, my problem is with item 3, obtaining the certificate of historical relevance, which requires the sending of a small booklet to “Asifed” in which you have provided your car’s specs and stapled pictures from all angles of your car, exterior – interior and engine, so they can check if your car is all original.
My car isn’t. I spoke to a representative of “Asifed” in charge of approving these applications, and she basically told me that I don’t stand a chance obtaining the certificate, considering the non-period mods to my car: MX5 Front seats & Mangoletsi – Jenvey injection system.
I argued that they accept/allow that in period the car did not have rear view mirrors or seatbelts, which I installed, nor did it have side indicators which have to be installed by Italian law. And the MX5 seats have headrests!
She suggested that I’d try anyway, because you never know... Telling other people to gamble 550£ comes easy to some I guess...
Anyway, I dug deeper and found out that I can register via a “unique model homologation” which can be done via the German TUV who have a local department here in Milan, Italy.
So I contacted them and got the feedback that I would have to take up residence in Germany (=not kidding), and try (no guarantee for success) to get my car registered via this “unique model” procedure. Costs? They couldn’t tell.
A quick search on the internet showed that obtaining this TUV homologation for a car modified with parts (=mangoletsi and jenvey) that have no ECE or TUV homologation, could be costing close to 10.000€. And that is not a typo.
Needless to say, I am desperate.
As far as I see it, I have 2 options.
Option 1 is to obtain some original black front seats and a complete original carburettor-throttle link system with air filter, install them and dismantle them again after the registration process to sell them on.
But this means, I might be in trouble later on with insurance companies, since the car I will insure will not be the car on the registration documents, so they can refuse to pay anything.
Option 2 would be to start a car selling business (I got this tip from a guy from down south here in Italy that got annoyed with trying the above standard procedure and never got his non-original cars to get registered.)
In that way I can get a garage plate. And don’t need to get any approval whatsoever. Not even an MOT. But I cannot really travel abroad. Bummer
I excluded moving to Germany as on option. No offence.
Nor did I consider registering the car in the UK even if the registration procedures seem easier, because once I want to bring the car to Italy, I would have to go through the above mentioned procedures anyway since the modifications would not be homologated as for the TUV process... so no point in trying.
However, before I actually start doing anything, some help please.
Has there ever been a fuel injected Jaguar E type in the sixties? Even for racing purpose?
Never heard of it, but if so, I can actually go and argue to the local Asifed that my mods are “period” (I know, no ECM programming back then... ) and get my car registered here in Italy.
If you think there is anything else that could get my car registered here in Italy, I would love to hear from it!
Come to think of it, for 26.000Euro I can have my car registered in Italy, by a company around 100 miles away from where I live, but they would have to convert it to electric to do so.... always better than having it sitting in the garage...but maybe some other time.
Looking forward to hearing from anybody!
Thanks
Jan
The standard procedure is more or less as follows.
1. Register with a Classic Car club.
2. Apply via the club for membership of the “Asifed” = Italian Classic Car association.
3. Simultaneously, apply via the club for an “Asifed certificate of historical relevance”.
4. Bring your car to a mechanic – workshop that needs to provide a declaration – certificate that your car is roadworthy.
Send your documents to Asifed and wait. 2 months. Probably.
Receive above approval/registration with Asifed and then proceed as follows:
5. Have all non Italian language (my car is imported from the US) documents (Us registration documents – invoices…) translated via a “registered Translator”. Basically this person will bring your translated documents to court and in front of a judge, together with a witness, swear that he correctly translated the documents without falsify anything.
6. With all above documents required for registration in Italy, I can go to dedicated MOT station (+/- 40 miles away) where they will check my car, confirm all the paperwork and issue me with the documents to obtain a licence plate.
7. Apply for the licence plate by filling in additional documents, pay the annual classic car road tax and wait for the plate to become available .... So I can go and pick it up (have no idea if I can have the plate mailed)
I think I also require some homologation documents from Jaguar, which I will find out shortly.
If you are still with me, thanks!!
Apart from all of the above costing around 550£-600€, my problem is with item 3, obtaining the certificate of historical relevance, which requires the sending of a small booklet to “Asifed” in which you have provided your car’s specs and stapled pictures from all angles of your car, exterior – interior and engine, so they can check if your car is all original.
My car isn’t. I spoke to a representative of “Asifed” in charge of approving these applications, and she basically told me that I don’t stand a chance obtaining the certificate, considering the non-period mods to my car: MX5 Front seats & Mangoletsi – Jenvey injection system.
I argued that they accept/allow that in period the car did not have rear view mirrors or seatbelts, which I installed, nor did it have side indicators which have to be installed by Italian law. And the MX5 seats have headrests!
She suggested that I’d try anyway, because you never know... Telling other people to gamble 550£ comes easy to some I guess...
Anyway, I dug deeper and found out that I can register via a “unique model homologation” which can be done via the German TUV who have a local department here in Milan, Italy.
So I contacted them and got the feedback that I would have to take up residence in Germany (=not kidding), and try (no guarantee for success) to get my car registered via this “unique model” procedure. Costs? They couldn’t tell.
A quick search on the internet showed that obtaining this TUV homologation for a car modified with parts (=mangoletsi and jenvey) that have no ECE or TUV homologation, could be costing close to 10.000€. And that is not a typo.
Needless to say, I am desperate.
As far as I see it, I have 2 options.
Option 1 is to obtain some original black front seats and a complete original carburettor-throttle link system with air filter, install them and dismantle them again after the registration process to sell them on.
But this means, I might be in trouble later on with insurance companies, since the car I will insure will not be the car on the registration documents, so they can refuse to pay anything.
Option 2 would be to start a car selling business (I got this tip from a guy from down south here in Italy that got annoyed with trying the above standard procedure and never got his non-original cars to get registered.)
In that way I can get a garage plate. And don’t need to get any approval whatsoever. Not even an MOT. But I cannot really travel abroad. Bummer
I excluded moving to Germany as on option. No offence.
Nor did I consider registering the car in the UK even if the registration procedures seem easier, because once I want to bring the car to Italy, I would have to go through the above mentioned procedures anyway since the modifications would not be homologated as for the TUV process... so no point in trying.
However, before I actually start doing anything, some help please.
Has there ever been a fuel injected Jaguar E type in the sixties? Even for racing purpose?
Never heard of it, but if so, I can actually go and argue to the local Asifed that my mods are “period” (I know, no ECM programming back then... ) and get my car registered here in Italy.
If you think there is anything else that could get my car registered here in Italy, I would love to hear from it!
Come to think of it, for 26.000Euro I can have my car registered in Italy, by a company around 100 miles away from where I live, but they would have to convert it to electric to do so.... always better than having it sitting in the garage...but maybe some other time.
Looking forward to hearing from anybody!
Thanks
Jan