Thought and Contemplation

Talk about E-Types here
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Herzeg
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#21 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Herzeg » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:49 pm

A lot of interesting comments and thoughts. I'm now using my London bus pass but not yet at retirement age, so qualify as partly an old fogey!

I love old cars but I think careers, partying then family put these way down the list. The other point is that modern cars can be leased quite easily and I see lots of wanna be Lewis Hamiltons in new Merc and Audis swerving through the traffic like lunatics. These people are only interested in first-time starting and loud stereos. The idea of nurturing an old classic to life (like I'm planning to do in the morning!), checking oil and water, etc, etc are not interesting.

I got my E when the kids were teenagers and I had some money to spend. The mortgage was paid off and it seemed a fun idea. I just think it's a rarity in today's throwaway society to see young people thinking the way us classic car owners do. It's also more difficult for them to have any cash after paying rent or mortgage.

My sons will probably get my car when I finally peg it but I can't see them being able to afford one until they are my age.

Happy New Year to everyone, love the Forum

John
1969 S2 OTS

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Richardhealey
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#22 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Richardhealey » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:28 pm

Hi Andrew,
I’m 44! Bought my first classic I restore in my 20’s and that was a ‘60 frogeye. In hindsight, it was probability beyond economic repair, but I persevered...
I love anything mechanical ( Grand father in the REME ?!) I never had the money to go out and buy a sports car, so I thought restoring a classic was the way to go. If I had the money I bought parts, if not, I closed the garage door for another month...
I moved onto a ‘73 TR 6, which I fully rebuilt 2003/4 and only sold it last year as I now have a little daughter and my wife was also quite sure the triumph’s doors were going to fall off when I accelerated hard (pah!). It was in superb condition!
I was also itching to have another project, so now I have my ‘69 2+2....In one million bits AND we are moving house next week (with a less than satisfactory garage to work in!). I must be mad...
I’m enjoying the project, but it is going so very slowly (delays with the body man) and it seems parts really are a lot more expensive ( in relative terms) than I remember and the E type seems an infinitely more complicated beast.
Luckily, I think with age my patience has improved ( a little).
And of course we have much better online communities (this one) to share and learn from - which is an absolute boon...
Oh and Happy New Year to all on the forum!
Cheers,Rich
1969 series 2, 2+2... going for a full rebuild.. Gulp...

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Geoff Allam
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#23 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Geoff Allam » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:36 am

Bought my first one at 35. I am 65 now and in the middle of restoring it. My son and daughter are now in their mid 30’s and are Jaguar people also but are really more interested in the new ones.
Geoff Allam
67 series1 ots under restoration
64 series 1 fhc burning lots of oil
53 xk 120 fhc sitting in garage waiting for attention

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cactusman
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#24 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by cactusman » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:50 am

some great posts fellow e typers. It is heartening to know that they are not all in the hands of the over 50 club! :bigrin: :bigrin: I wanted one when I was 8. i bought my MGB at 26 as I could not afford an 'E'. Did a ground up restore on the MG at 34 (made no economic sense but was SO SATISFYING). Finally got the car of my dreams at 48 and six years on (yes - I am 54!) we three are all still together....half planning to restore the e type when I pack up work for good in a few years time :drinkingcheers:
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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andrewh
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#25 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by andrewh » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:35 am

yes great feedback to the subject and it does seem that the interest will continue down through new generations. I fully understand the cost of acquisition being a problem, but to some extent it seems its always been the barrier to entry for aspiring E type owners . I would definitely have bought one in 1961 if I had the money :bigrin:

Anyway thank you for contributing to my thread and I wish you all , my fellow Members of the superb E type Forum a very Happy New Year.
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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Moeregaard
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#26 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Moeregaard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:59 pm

I'm coming late to the discussion, but here in the U.S. we've seen a large decline in the number of young people interested in wrenching on old iron. I blame this on three factors.

First, in recent years there has been a growing sentiment that people who work with their hands occupy a lower caste in society, and anyone working on cars, or performing any sort of manual activity must have failed in school and therefore in life. Then there's also that instant-gratification thing: why fix something when you can just buy new?

Secondly, the decline of Industrial Arts courses in the high schools. The school districts like to cite liability concerns, i.e., they don't want to be sued if Johnny cuts his finger in the machine shop. It's OK, though, for him to break his neck playing football. This has been a 40-year trend that show little signs of reversing, so if the younger set don't have an older friend or relative to show them the ropes, they'll probably never learn how to do anything. I learned the basics from my dad, who at 84 is still driving and maintaining his '89 911 Carrera.

The third reason is that the supply of affordable restoration projects is drying up. During my teen years in the 1970s, the local classified ads were filled with cheap, old cars waiting for someone to breath new life into them. $1,200 would get you an E-Type that only needed a clutch. MGs, Triumphs and old American iron were even cheaper. My first car was a '62 MGA that I picked up for $1,600 in 1979, and I paid $2,000 for a rust-free E-Type a couple of years later. Unfortunately, the current market and its speculators have made it difficult for the average enthusiast.

I do feel that there will always be a core group of younger people with an appreciation for old things, and who will want to learn the old ways of doing things, but the responsibility for bringing in new blood will always lie with the old guys.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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E600
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#27 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by E600 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:41 pm

I bought my first E Type when i was 18, and have had an E Type of some sort ever since. I am now 65. They were nearly always bought as a basket case or stalled restoration project hence affordability issues eased.

As others have said I don't think the current generation, in general, are really into the black hand gang approach to cars or much else really. Between PCP and a replace when broken mentality I see the future for older cars declining.

This added to a government persuasion away from old cars could well see their ultimate demise. I am aware certain continental countries have projects such as reducing the days per year older cars are allowed on the roads and only cars of a certain age being allowed into city centres.

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politeperson
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#28 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by politeperson » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:56 pm

I had my first when I was 46 and I am 49 now.

The E type was never the car of my "youth". however in my youth I always preferred Deep Purple over Duran Duran, Michael Caine over Patrick Swayze and E types over Audi Quattros. The 70's 80's and 90's have never really done it for me.

I can watch the French Connection and the Italian Job over and over

The designers and artists of the 60s just seemed to be less constrained than in the 80s or even now. Style for me began with jet travel and ended with prog rock. 67-72 is the sweet spot for many things.

I will let Series 1 e types into this "style" club as well of course. Oh yes.
James

L.J.K. Setright was right.
"You just cant beat a good E-type"

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vikla
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#29 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by vikla » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:48 am

I liked Mark's response from the USA because I can see all the same things here in the UK with my own grown up children.
Another factor in the UK is housing and garaging. Whenever I bought a house a decent garage was a major consideration because I have always had a 'hobby' car. However since the 1980's planning rules have gradually done away with the requirements for garages.
Where I live in Surrey I see many houses have had integral garages converted into living space. Many newer houses were built with garages only meant for storage with only 6ft wide doors and insufficient room to work on a car inside. Across from where I live a 1960's house has just been replaced by a pair of semi-detached houses, each with 3 storeys, 5 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms ... and no garages, just 2 parking spaces. And they were £1.65m each.
So younger people (under 40 say) don't see the need for even having a facility for keeping a car in for some time in the future when they can maybe afford a classic car as well as house.
Steve
S1 4.2 FHC 1966

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Geoff Allam
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#30 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Geoff Allam » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:47 pm

Yes. Even in Canada with our huge landmass there is a modern push by city administrators for “densification”. The theory supposedly is that it is somehow “green”. More density = less cost for infrastructure, less land taken out of agricultural use, and MORE TAX REVENUE PER UNIT OF AREA. Unfortunately what I beleve it results in is more interpersonal conflict due to crowding, removal of the “urban forest” due to lack of spacefor large trees, and a general decline in quality of urban life. Oh, and MORE TAX REVENUE.
Geoff Allam
67 series1 ots under restoration
64 series 1 fhc burning lots of oil
53 xk 120 fhc sitting in garage waiting for attention

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WM86
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#31 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by WM86 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:14 pm

Its been a while since I've visited the Forum but thought I'd post on this.

I have a Mini Cooper that I bought in 2009 - a limited edition model which needed £12k worth of work in the form of bodywork and an engine rebuild. I guess you could say the influence of my mother and grandmother played a part in my buying, wrestling with the costs of restoration and deciding to go ahead anyway because it is a rare car and one I can turn my hand to. It also served as my wedding car, so I can't really bring myself to part with it!

I built the Airfix E-Type kit aged 11, and I don't think my admiration of the E-Type has diminished since. My 30th birthday present of 3 days with a '64 E-Type FHC (how my now-wife regrets it) has only fanned the flames in terms of wanting to own one, and having seen a variety of them at Brooklands today only affirms my wish! I have an eBay feed, XKE Data all on the favourites as well as some of the US dealers which I check with regularity.

However, since getting married and with no garage/storage for any prospective E-Type project, as well as the impending plan of kids (plus education), a house somewhere, means financially I can't really afford one. I'd genuinely love to have one, be able to learn more about the car itself, and develop my skills to keep it and my Mini on the road. I also feel I am a part of a generation that relies heavily on finance to buy newer cars which they can change after 3 years and move on to something else. I do think (as a teacher) the younger generations are not as aware of the past as I (aged 32) or others are, and cars (amongst other things) form an important part of our heritage.

Happy New Year to you all!

Will

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bitsobrits
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#32 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by bitsobrits » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:03 am

Moeregaard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:59 pm
I blame this on three factors.
Mark,

I agree with your 3 but would add one more fairly unique to the US: People are not going to lust after cars they don't know how to drive. Youngsters here are no longer required to learn to drive manual gearbox cars, and very few learn how to do so at home. It's only about 3% of newly licensed drivers in the US (and only 18% of all drivers) that know how to drive a "stick" these days. Surely that will have an impact on the market value of our mostly manual machines.
Steve
'65 S1 4.2 FHC

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Marcus2571
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#33 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Marcus2571 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:07 am

Well for once am at the younger end! Got my first one at 33 and am now 38. Know another chap of my age who has one too.

Any other central (zone 2 anyway!) London owners here?

Marcus

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andrewh
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#34 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by andrewh » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:32 am

What a great effort and considered thought you have all given to my rather random thought. Some really superb insight here. I suspect that the future of E types is pretty safe all in all. Many will be handed down to the next generations, that simple process should generate interest from friends and contemporaries and keep the pot boiling. Then you have all the social events that increasingly drive the interest in the Classic Car movement and also increase demand for vehicles to participate in. I can see continued increase in the business of specialists, as there definitely seems a generational move away from home rebuilds to using specialists. As for storage, perhaps all of the storage companies that have started up have something. Maybe the market will become more like boats. Lock and leave in the hands of someone else when you are not using it?
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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Simon P
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#35 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Simon P » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:51 am

Marcus2571 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:07 am
Any other central (zone 2 anyway!) London owners here?
Yes, me! :bigrin:

Funnily enough, one's 22 year old daughter, who really can't see what the big deal is about the Old Man's old car, went to a party over Christmas and was slightly horrified to find that the lad who was hosting it had a massive framed print of an E-type occupying a dominating position on the main wall of the lounge.....

:bigrin: :bigrin: :bigrin:
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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Moeregaard
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#36 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Moeregaard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:46 am

"It's only about 3% of newly licensed drivers in the US (and only 18% of all drivers) that know how to drive a "stick" these days. Surely that will have an impact on the market value of our mostly manual machines."

I guess I hadn't considered that aspect. When I started driving in the mid-'70s, it was just taken for granted that everyone knew how to drive a manual gearbox. There is hope for the future, though: my 18-year-old niece is very interested in learning how to drive a manual. At some point, her daddy will take her out to an empty parking lot and toss her the keys to his '81 911!
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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rossbraithwaite
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#37 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by rossbraithwaite » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 am

Good topic and something that I have thought and contemplated myself at times!
I'm glad to hear that at 41 I am not the youngest E Type owner but still suspect that there is a strong bias towards those who can remember the E Type being in production. I have been concerned that as that generation retire from E Type ownership values will drop because my generation are more likely to buy a Cossie, Impreza, Lancer, M/AMG/RS car or a 911. If I hadn't inherited my car from my father there is no way I would have gone for an E Type even if I could have afforded one 15 years ago.
Another factor is the investment required in garage equipment to maintain one of these cars at home. Luckily for me my first car was a Land Rover (still miss you, Larry) and I got the bug for spannering and have been collecting tools ever since.
I don't think we can blame the younger generation (snowflakes, millenials etc.) for a lack of interest in old cars. The cars that they learn to drive in are not easily maintainable by the amatuer roadside mechanic. Therefore those cars are quickly and easily written off and scrapped. How many Citroen Saxos (my 2nd car- good riddance) do you see on the road today?
'67 S1.5 FHC, manual, maroon with black interior. Originally exported to Arizona but 'repatriated' in '89. Since converted to RHD and triple SUs.

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Simon P
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#38 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by Simon P » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:53 am

Not sure it quite works like that. There are plenty of cars from the '20s and '30s that are still very collectible and still command very high prices (and only yesterday I received a Bonhams catalogue with a very nice Stutz Bearcat in it). Presumably not everyone buying these is a 110-year-old who lusted after them in their youth?
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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andrewh
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#39 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by andrewh » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:09 am

I think the E type is so Iconic it will stand the test of time and there will be plenty of demand for the cars from future generations. The only slight question mark over E types is that there are quite a few of them relative to other Classics though. There are not that many Stutz Bearcats I would guess? I think the key to the on going demand is the continued success of so many events that people can attend and step back in time. In a world that is changing so quickly, nostalgia will stay in fashion....I hope. The swinging sixties, the Beatles, Twiggy etc are all touch stones for the E type generation. Cool
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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rossbraithwaite
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#40 Re: Thought and Contemplation

Post by rossbraithwaite » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:10 am

production volumes may have something to do with it but over the next 20 years your Lancia will appreciate more than your E Type. Of course there will be some market for E Types but it won't be as strong as it is today.
Anyway, values are not the be all and end all. I hope to be able to hand my car down to my son or daughter as my father did to me.
'67 S1.5 FHC, manual, maroon with black interior. Originally exported to Arizona but 'repatriated' in '89. Since converted to RHD and triple SUs.

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