Acoustic Cameras

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Heuer
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#1 Acoustic Cameras

Post by Heuer » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:11 pm

The Government is starting a test in a few areas of Acoustic cameras designed to trap any cars or motorcycles that exceed a preset noise limit.
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Only cars produced after 2016 have to be below 74dB so the noise level deemed to be inappropriate is yet to be decided. Main cause of the noise is motorcycles illegally fitted with 'sports' exhaust. Chris Grayling (Transport secretary) says "I am determined to crack down on the nuisance drivers who blight our streets."

Not sure how they are going to treat classic cars because even a standard E-Type will breach the 74dB limit and vintage Bentley's and Bugatti's will be way over. We just had the Lancaster, Spitfire and Dakota fly over our house and they would have tripped the cameras for miles!

Probably just another political sound bite :banghead:
David Jones
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christopher storey
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#2 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by christopher storey » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:09 pm

David : I would expect that the selected noise limit would be at something like 90 to 100 dBa, since the limits imposed by most racing tracks now is something of the order of 106 dBa, measured at a fixed distance and angle . I have some reservations about how such devices could be made reliable, because the sound measurement varies with distance, and reliable measurement of a moving object's emission may be very difficult . For comparison purposes, the Noise at Work Regulations 1989 as amended in 2006 require hearing protection only when the levels exceed 85dBa, and this of course is continuous noise rather than transient noise . 100dBa is generally regarded as the level at which 50 % of a population regularly exposed to such noise will suffer Noise Induced Hearing Loss

Just as a matter of interest, because the dB scale is logarithmic, every 3 dB increase represents a doubling of sound energy, so 85dBa is about 9 times louder than 74dBa, and 100 is about 2 to the 9th power or 512 times louder !

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Simon P
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#3 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Simon P » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:22 am

I'm reminded of the scene* in Basic Instinct: "What are you going to do? Arrest me for smoking?"

So presumably having gathered the recorded data they're then going to do what with it.... charge you with the hitherto little-known offence of 'driving a bit too loudly'? :roll:

Fear not though - history suggests anything with Chris Grayling's imprimatur on it is immediately doomed to failure :lol: :lol: :lol:


(* And having reminded myself of that scene, I'm now going to have a quiet lie down for a few minutes... :bigrin: )
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#4 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by PeterCrespin » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:13 pm

With speed cameras you can link the image to the offender by validation road markings. If you're right behind a noisy vehicle with both in shot, how do they avoid mixing up offenders?
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Bfastr
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#5 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Bfastr » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:19 pm

the speed cameras also take a short video for several purposes, as the offender you only get the snap shot in the mail. the video/stills and offense are reviewed by a traffic officer before submitting to the courts/DMV before you get your summons. I would imagine this camera works the same. surely if your aunt gertrude is behind a biker in her camry the odds are pretty good the officer reviewing things will pick the right vehicle. and even if he doesnt. thats why you get your day in court. There are a lot of borderline violations that never get submitted as the officer has to defend his findings to the judge as well. I do find it odd that they will spend this much time and money on something that is usually a "fix-it" ticket. ( at least thats how it works on the west coast of the US )
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#6 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Heuer » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:05 pm

And just as you can voice match a recording to an individual you can match sound of the offending vehicle to a audio signature library that will be quickly built up. V8, straight six, boxer, Harley - potato potato potato, Vincent Black Lightning or the unique sound of the Ducati.

Since 1973, new cars have been required to meet Europe-wide noise limits. Limits have progressively reduced from 82 decibels in 1976 to the current limit of 74 decibels. There is a law concerning altered exhaust systems in relation to use of motor vehicles on a road:
https://essex.police.uk/getmedia/5a4aaf ... fences.pdf

In the case of the E-Type the exhaust system pre-dates Type Approval and 1973 so difficult to prove it had been altered (big bore tubes, straight through silencers, tubular manifolds). The Police could use "Avoidance of excessive noise – Reg. 97 The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986" as the basis of a prosecution though:

"No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver."

Fairly academic though if you are observant and look for the yellow cameras and lift off. No doubt Waze and other navigation systems will announce their presence as well although you may not be able to hear the warning over the noise!

The full report which recommends the use of these cameras is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ations.pdf

Interesting read and covers legislation applied in several countries and remedies.
David Jones
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#7 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by chrisfell » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 pm

Interesting and so full of holes, that only a politician (who didn’t like people enjoying themselves) could have thought of it.

Yesterday, at Prescott (see other posts), one of the loudest cars to run up the hill wasn’t an E with a free flowing straight through exhaust, nor was it one of the many race modified cars like Kougars or a stunningly quick twin-cam engined Midget. Nor was it any of the Caterham 7s that turned up. It was the most recent of all cars - a newish Jaguar F Type. Once the loud pedal was pressed REALLY hard a valve opened to produce a bark loud enough to rattle teeth. I can see such sporty Jags, Astons and many hypercars falling foul of these utterly silly devices.

I wonder if there has been any analysis done on the rates of road accidents involving pedestrians correlated with the reduction in noise levels made by cars? Hmmmmm!
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#8 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Heuer » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:20 pm

Read the report - it is well balanced and covers everything from race tracks to the number of prosecutions in New Jersey for driving with 'loud pipes'. It also is quite open about the weaknesses of the technology and alternatives. It was published in May and is the basis of the grandstanding by Grayling MP.
David Jones
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#9 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Durango2k » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:27 pm

I do live in town, along a quit street which nightwise is visited by hooligans in their AMGs and BMWs, lets not forget the 50+ dentist or lawyer on his Harley. If you can‘t get your little friend back to his job, buy a harley ? So it seems.

Its often no fun living here, and I highly appreciate these new items- they said they‘re gonna try them in germany as well.

There is absolutely no reason why one should be allowed to have a louder car then tecnically necessary. Imho you can do what you want out of town, on the autobahn, I don‘t care.

But the posers in their noisy toys, shoot them and scrap the cars instantly by the side of the road. It is so unnecessary to pose. And to add some politically incorrectness, in fact most of these cars owners are from, well, say arabia or north africa.

Carsten
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#10 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Geoff Allam » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:20 am

I agree with you completely Carsten. (Other than the politically incorrect part) I also live in a quiet residential neighbourhood but unfortunately there is a twisty road nearby. Every evening in the summer the yahoos on motorcycles and the idiots with the tuner cars with the oil drum exhaust extensions race back and forth. Every year a few of them go out of control and kill themselves but that does not seem to deter the rest. I will happily vote for any politician who is serious about controlling the noise. In my opinion it is nothing but narcissistic anti social behaviour. Most normal people have grown out of making vroom vroom noises by the time they are old enough to drive.
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#11 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by nefematic » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:03 am

There exist noise cameras imposing a graphical feature (similar to the heat sensitive pictures everbody is familiar with). The local Test Expo for all things Automotive measuring had them on display. You can point at say a group of people and see who is talking, and how loud. Similar, you can point the camera into the engine bay and localize the source of noises and rattles(!). Of course I don‘t know what the planned noise cameras are capable of and I didn‘t read the article. Just saying that technology moves on.
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#12 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Simon P » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:21 am

Will the new technology also apply to the Police helicopter that regularly overflies my house at low-level at four in the morning and wakes everyone up?

:roll:
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#13 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Simon P » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:28 am

Actually, scrub that: the noise that really gets on my t*ts and wakes me up at stupid o'clock every morning is the Song Thrush that insists on perching on top of the willow tree and announcing its presence to the world. Honestly the bird song (and fox cries) round my part of the world is so bad that I'm thinking of moving back to the country.... :shrug:
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#14 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by christopher storey » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:55 am

We have Jackdaws in the chimneys and large Pigeons everwhere, including nesting in a large water collector just outside our bedroom windows . Duh Der Der Der Der( repeat 200 times ) at 4 am is most welcome :bigrin: :bigrin:

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#15 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Durango2k » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Get a proper slingshot (hint: youtube: slingshot channel), and end the pidgeons...

Mao said: kill one, educate 100.

Or so it works... pidgeons may need 2-5 till they are „educated“...

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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#16 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Heuer » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:51 pm

I have just "educated" the Jackdaw's who used to bounce around on our chimney at 6 o'clock in the morning. Same goes for the Wood Pigeon's and we are free of them all. Happy to have the Song Thrush, Blackbirds, Robin and the Dove's (innocent looking but they will attack and kill Magpie's who venture into their territory) singing away to their heart's content at dawn.
David Jones
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#17 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Gfhug » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:06 pm

Can I borrow your educator, please? Bl**dy wood pigeons, grrr!
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#18 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by Barry » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:41 am

The “Educator,” It’s probably a gun! Oh, David, you have changed your watch!!! A classic!
Barry

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#19 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:00 am

Hi All....no more gun related comments please.....these things can snowball if we are not carefull...... :bigrin:
Steve
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#20 Re: Acoustic Cameras

Post by H7OB » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:09 am

I’m more intrigued as to why the Autavia has been replaced by a Monaco! Just a change of image or a new acquisition?? :wink:
Paul
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