OBL = $565k

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lopena
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#1 OBL = $565k

Post by lopena » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 am

A beautiful 1961 E-type Coupe was just hammered sold at the Gooding & Co. Monterey auction for $565,000, (not including buyer’s premium).

The car was supposedly subject to a 4,000+ hour restoration.

Unfortunately, there was black paint in the JAGUAR name on the spinners, which spoiled the whole thing for me.

Alan
N.J.

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Series1 Stu
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#2 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Series1 Stu » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am

Really, that's an outrage!

:lol:
Stuart

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#3 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by bobsnicholson » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:20 pm

$565k, bloody hell you can buy a new car for less than that :shock:
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mgcjag
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#4 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by mgcjag » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:30 pm

Is this the one....estimate was $650-$750 https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1961- ... ead-coupe/ Are the spinners repro....our expert will know.....boot trim looks baggy....and whats going on with that wiper blade
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Heuer
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#5 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Heuer » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:08 pm

Yes, repro 'Jacuar' spinners with black paint. Shame as it is a rare car. For that money you think they would have sprung for an original key fob!
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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mgcjag
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#6 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by mgcjag » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:13 pm

Xkedata has it listed as a $400k restoration and multiple 100 point concours winner
Steve
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1954Etype
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#7 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by 1954Etype » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:25 pm

Mat isn’t baggy Steve. Is it too high at the front?
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

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#8 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Heuer » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:07 pm

It has the wrong bumper seals - they should be thin.
Image

The brake bottle caps should be NIVOCODE
Image
David Jones
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lopena
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#9 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by lopena » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:09 pm

With 4,000+ hours of labour, plus parts and the original cost of the car I think this bloke is under water at $565,000!


Alan
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#10 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Moeregaard » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Agree 100% that the buyer is underwater with this one, unless the car has some sort of provenance we haven't heard about. He/she apparently got caught up in a feeding frenzy with no way out, and will be taking a significant haircut down the road.
Last edited by Moeregaard on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
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lopena
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#11 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by lopena » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:21 am

Another supposed “100-point” 1961 OTS (OBL) was just hammered sold at $340,000 at the RM Sotheby's Monterey auction.

I can’t explain the $225,000 differential between the two cars.

Alan
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#12 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Heuer » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:00 am

The review view mirror on 885018 also is incorrect - should have the pointed (not curved) stem.
Image

The one fitted is from a later car.
David Jones
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Simon P
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#13 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Simon P » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:45 am

Overriders look a bit on the wonky side?

Out of interest, we see a number of these cars advertised as 'subject to a blah-blah-blah number of hours' restorations. I'd be interested to know what other people's experiences of professional restorations are, and maybe Angus's too as he obviously has to keep records of the ones he does, but my own car - which was absolutely stripped apart to the last nut and bolt and had a full mechanical rebuild and all the usual metalwork replacements needed - ran out at 1,288 billed hours, and the only things done externally were the retrim, the roadwheel restoration, and the Webasto set-up, so maybe another 200 hours for those three items?

No car is perfect, but having been able to compare mine to others over the last five years I'd say mine certainly stands its ground amongst the better ones, so if we assume mine was, say 1,500 hours all in, I'd be interested to know what the additional 2,500+ hours on a restoration like the one featured here supposedly goes on?
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
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Heuer
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#14 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Heuer » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:10 pm

Arguably sourcing original parts? Also I see the bonnet was missing so making a new one with the original shape louvres would have taken a lot of time to complete.
David Jones
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Philk
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#15 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Philk » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:56 pm

When you click on the documentation link you can load up the JDHT certificate. This has the word "originally" in front of each of the main numbers. This seems a bit strange in the circumstances of what is claimed to be a fully numbers matching car. Looking at the engine number on the head, it does not appear to have a "1" on its side between the last engine no. digit and the "9" for the compression ratio. Was this like it on all the heads or did some have a simple "dash"?
Phil
1964 S1 3.8 OTS

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Simon P
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#16 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Simon P » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:09 pm

Heuer wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:10 pm
sourcing original parts?
As in spinners, bumper seals, bottle caps, mirror stems and key fob? :bigrin:

Point taken on the bonnet though.

I think in general my point is that whilst the costs of a full-blown professional restoration will vary greatly - driven by the hourly labour rate - the actual number of hours expended should be fairly constant. The talented home restorer will of course take longer (a) because they can, and (b) because to a certain extent they're learning on the job, but the experience built up by the professional restorer should mean that they can go straight to the heart of the problem each time and remedy it far more quickly and efficiently: likewise using their established network of contacts to source harder to find parts. Put another way, all other things being equal any home restorer would be likely to finish their second restoration quicker than their first.

Also I'm genuinely interested to know what the norm is. Five years on and other than the fact that the car is still going strong I've got no real way of knowing if my own hours were good, bad or indifferent. I did have the advantage of starting with a complete car - albeit a very shagged one, and Series 2 parts are doubtless easier to come by than parts for the earliest cars (despite RHD Series 2s being amongst the rarest :wink: ).
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#17 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by rswaffie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm

Hi Simon,
I’m at the end of my total nut and bolt restoration - just under 3.5 years elapsed time. 1,750 hours of my time plus professional services time; 320 hrs body shop, 20hrs AJS diff rebuild, 40hrs engine & carb rebuild and refit, 8 hrs gearbox overhaul, 2 hrs prop overhaul & balance.
As i’m a first timer and learning on the job, I know I took a lot longer than the pro’s to do certain things (rewiring and interior trimming in particular) and I stripped all the paint/underseal back to metal by hand rather than risk baking/dipping/blasting issues, which took what seemed like forever!
Most restorers I contacted at the start talked about 1500 hours as a starting point, condition of body being the main variable.
So at an average £50 per hour, plus parts, plus car purchase price, plus the dreaded vat, I can see where some of the eye watering prices come from.
I had a very limited budget, so had no choice but to do it myself.
Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Nearing completion of a comprehensive nut ‘n’ bolt restoration in my small, but utilitarian garage :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

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#18 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Gfhug » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm

rswaffie wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm

I had a very limited budget, so had no choice but to do it myself.
And you've done a fine job that any pro' shop would be pleased with :yellow:
S2 FHC Light Blue

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#19 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by rswaffie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:18 pm

Thanks Geoff, if I get the rich running sorted out, I’ll be able to get it out to some events for some scrutiny!
Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Nearing completion of a comprehensive nut ‘n’ bolt restoration in my small, but utilitarian garage :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

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Simon P
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#20 Re: OBL = $565k

Post by Simon P » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Thanks, Richard

And as Geoff rightly says, we've seen for ourselves and enjoyed following the exceptional results that those hours of yours have produced.

Highlighting your restoration also makes me realise we should also factor in the fact that the home restorer will also spend additional hours because they will be prepared to spend (make that 'will relish spending') time making each part perfect, whereas the professional restorer will generally have to bear in mind that the customer won't thank them for spending 3 hours at £x per hour perfecting a £10 part and will have to strike some sort of balance as a result.

So if we put a typical full restoration at say 1,500-2,000 hours, it still makes me wonder about claims of 4,000+ hour professional restorations. Yep, a bit of additional challenge with something like the bonnet as David points out, but you're still talking about enough additional hours in which to have restored a second car.....
Last edited by Simon P on Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

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