Registration in Italy rejected - EEC-homologation - help wanted

[JD-JAG66]

I brought my 1966 2+2 Jaguar to the "registration MOT" last Thursday, so that I could finally register it here in Italy.
Unfortunately, my car was rejected, for the following reasons.

1. the plastic lenses on the front indicators and rear stop/tail/flasher, do not have a European homologation E11 marking.
This whilst the headlamp and rear reflector do, so their reasoning was that these plastic lenses are clearly aftermarket and never homologated. I bought mine from SNG.
Question : has anybody ever received any of these plastics with a E11 marking? If so, where did you get them?

2. the stainless steel BELL exhaust BSSJR018 does not have any brand (the stickers are gone) identification, there is no part number on it and it did not come with homologation documents.
Question :
1. Does anybody have any knowledge of EEC conformity/homologation documents for these, or for the original non stainless steel version?
2. Is there any identification/stamped number (that I couldn’t find) on these that allows to identify them as being homologated with the, hopefully available, EEC conformity/homologation documents?

3. front windscreen is laminated. Not stratified as by modern cars.
From what I can gather, there has never been any windscreen other then the laminated one, for any market in which the Etype/XKE was designated.
Question : Can anybody confirm this? If there are "stratified ones" where did you get them.

4. the external rear view mirrors are not homologated.
Apparently, without a EC homologation, for any part in production today, even if based on 60 year old parts, you need a EC homologation.
Question : Do the ones for the Series 3 have this homologation?

5. Engine type unknown.
I am not kidding. I provided a 4 page Certificate of historical relevance, with all the specifications of engine (HP-top speed, bore and stroke, …) and they cannot accept a to register my car since they cannot find an engine type stamped on the engine itself.
The best possible reply I could give is that it has an 8L engine (engine comes from a 1984 XJ6)
Question : what is stamped on the engine that I could pass on as “engine type”

6. Seats not original
I went with MX5 seats, since I preferred to have seats with a headrest.
I should now have these specifically homologated for my car at considerable cost.
Question : does anybody have some front seats for a 2+2, condition absolutely not important, that I could borrow? All expenses paid obviously.

For item 1 to 4, I already contacted SNG Barratt, to see if they could help me.

Apart from them, is there anybody in Jaguar that I could contact which would be able to confirm homologation documents or exemption from homologation for any of the above items (where applicable)?

All help appreciated!

[MarekH]

1/ I'd guess the Swiss and Germans will also join you and howl in complaint as I have seen new replacement Lucas s2/s3 front lenses supplied in Lucas boxes without the E11 markings. Any time I get enquiries from German or Swiss drivers, I always make sure they are supplied e11 marked lenses.

kind regards
Marek

[Gfhug]

Jan, the biggest Jaguar club in the UK is the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club https://jec.org.uk/
You might find it worth contacting them to find if they have answers to your questions or know who to talk to. The cost of joining the club is easily outweighed by the savings you get at SNG Barratt as a club member.
Maybe these people could offer advice or information https://www.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/
And the Club may know of someone closer to you who might have a couple of seats to borrow. They are quite heavy to ship from the UK and might get caught in EU duty questions, maybe not, I wouldn’t know, but locally borrowed could be your best option.

Good luck

Geoff

[JD-JAG66]

1/ I'd guess the Swiss and Germans will also join you and howl in complaint as I have seen new replacement Lucas s2/s3 front lenses supplied in Lucas boxes without the E11 markings. Any time I get enquiries from German or Swiss drivers, I always make sure they are supplied e11 marked lenses.

kind regards
Marek

Do you have any lenses available with E11 markings? If so, what's your price?

[JD-JAG66]

Jan, the biggest Jaguar club in the UK is the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club https://jec.org.uk/
You might find it worth contacting them to find if they have answers to your questions or know who to talk to. The cost of joining the club is easily outweighed by the savings you get at SNG Barratt as a club member.
Maybe these people could offer advice or information https://www.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/
And the Club may know of someone closer to you who might have a couple of seats to borrow. They are quite heavy to ship from the UK and might get caught in EU duty questions, maybe not, I wouldn’t know, but locally borrowed could be your best option.

Good luck

Geoff

thanks.
I have written to jaguarlandroverclassic already, Let's see what they will reply.
The JEC seems to have less posts then this forum. So will wait for a reply from JLRclassic.
Again, thanks!

[Gfhug]

Jan, don’t rely on online posts in club forums. Contact the club directly as they have some very experienced and knowledgeable people who have helped many with getting ex-US cars registered. And they will be a good place to ask about homologation of the engine identification.

Also, we are encouraged not to use quotes too much as they use up valuable server space. Even then you should reduce the quote to the relevant sentence. Just asking, that’s all.

Geoff

[Philk]

I found this thread fascinating to read..... So, basically, in order to have your car pass the various tests in these countries, you have to make it less original. My '64 S1 3.8 OTS does not have E11 stampings on the rear reflectors because they are original as fitted from factory. What a ridiculous state of affairs that you need to put reproductions on a car simply that they then carry the E11 markings (which did not come into being until several years after the production build date).

[MarekH]

Front lenses for a s1 never had e11 markings, neither then, nor now. (I was referring to s2 front lenses.) Some of the newer service items (e.g. from David Manners) do not even have "LUCAS" stamped onto them.
On the back of a s1, the round reflectors, presumably service items, have e11 and SAE 69 stamps added to what was previously just a reflector with a kitemark, so yes it is bizarre that they want to see e11 markings, especially since the manufacture predates the E numbering system coming into force and that the UK was not even part of the EU in 1966. (Google is your friend.)

It is also odd that the seats matter. Not only did the seat design change during the production run, but they were never part of the technical specification for the car. Credit to them for spotting non-standard seats though....

kind regards
Marek

[mgcjag]

I think the original poster needs to re check the Registration requirements in Italy...ideally with other Italian members..who have registeted historic vehicles....here in the UK there are various different ways to register vehicles with the DVLA...choose the wrong path and you could end up needing to pass the IVA (individual vehicle assesment)...iva will ask for similar things that the original poster has encountered...
.

[JD-JAG66]

Just for reference, when, last Thursday, I brought my car to be checked, there was also a 70's Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, in wonderful restored condition. The owner told me that in order to pass the technical control, he had to install 2 rear light clusters (so 2 remained original), which in stead of being inserted actually protrude from their housing. Not exactly pretty to see. This together with the installation of indicators on the side of the car, which I had to do also on my jaguar.
Once he has passed the technical control, he will remove these and return the car to original condition so that he can get a "tessera d'oro" or " gold certifcation for originality" from the italian oldtimer association.

I am considering contacting the Italian DVLA asking them to provide EC homolation documents used by owners from previous approvals for Jaguar E types.
After all, if they ask it for my car, they should have asked and obtained these from previous approvals.
Basically, with the feedback received so far, I am calling their bluff, since it seems that no EC approval regulations exist for E11 marking on lenses, mirrors, nor do any homologation documents exist for the silencer or seats, nor do front windscreens exist is stratified version.

SNG Barratt (thank you) have already replied that indeed there are no markings on the lenses, and windscreens only came in laminated form. I am waiting for a reply from jaguar classic to see whether they have any documents available to back up some statements, since at the moment, without official documents, the DVLA would not take any of this information into consideration at all to change their minds.

Updates will follow!

[JerryL770]

I might suggest that "stratified" = "laminated"

Stratified = multilayered

Laminated = multilayered