Visit to Pilkington Classic

Talk about E-Types here
User avatar

Topic author
Heuer
Administrator
Posts: 12878
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:29 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire
Great Britain

#1 Visit to Pilkington Classic

Post by Heuer » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:33 am

Earlier this week Angus and I visited the Pilkington Classic factory at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. This came about in a rather serendipitous way. I have been in regular email contact with Bud Marston in the US who is restoring an early FHC to concours original condition but the work had come to a complete standstill for the lack of a windscreen, or rather a windscreen that actually fitted. They had fitted a Pilkington screen, with great difficulty, but the following morning it had cracked. A second screen proved just as difficult although the original screen and one from a 1967 car fitted without problem. Bud contacted Pilkingtons who assured him their mould was correct but offered to make him a one off if he provided a pattern, not a trivial endeavour given it would have to be sent from California and making the mould/pattern would be in excess of £10,000. The very same day Bud and I were discussing a way forward a rather irate Angus Moss rang me bemoaning the fact it took his fitters a full day to install a new screen and the following morning it was starting to pop out. It occurred to me we might have the beginnings of a mutually beneficial plan provided Angus could find an original dated Triples screen in one of the FHC's he had in the workshop. The first two screens he looked at were US replacements which fitted well but with no provenance back to the Factory. Fortunately, on Sunday, he was able to check his totally original and un-restored 1966 FHC and it had its original and dated Triplex screen. Angus agreed to remove it, Bud contacted Pilkingtons to arrange for us to visit and Tuesday morning found us on the Isle of Sheppey for a meeting with Pilkington Classic Factory Managers Nick Gardiner and Pete Swann. (Pilkingtons own the Triplex brand).

The factory has been on this site since 1959 and has changed very little. They hold thousands of patterns for classic car glass but also make one-offs for concept cars or low production vehicles. It is a very manual process and their output is only about 50 screens a day! The process of making a windscreen requires three parts. The first is a flat cutting pattern from which the sheet is cut. There is then the metal mould which uses a system of weights and levers to gently shape the glass when it is heated. The mould is based on a wooden master pattern which is also used to check the shape before the glass is laminated. I took a lot of photos but Nick suggested I just link to their video which better explains this fascinating process - well worth watching before you read on!


We took two screens with us - the Triplex March 1966 original and a US PPG replacement, both of which easily fitted in the FHC. Pete Swann brought out the original wooden pattern and we laid the 1966 on to it. We did the same with the PPG screen. This is what we found:
Image
Image

And on the mould:
Image

For some reason the master pattern has changed which means all screens produced from it will have had less curvature than originally specified. Angus pointed out the pozidrive screws and some metal support plates which suggested the mould may have been damaged at some point. Nick Gardiner was slightly taken aback but immediately offered to do something about it. He suggested that Angus should leave his prized original screen with the helpfully named 'Smasher', who would adjust the mould to match the screen. They would then produce a single screen to the new pattern and send it to Angus. He would check it for fit and if it was deemed correct Pilkingtons would, at their own expense, make a new wooden master pattern and issue a new part number from which we can order. These screens will have the original Triplex heritage logo in the correct place (top of screen, centred on rear view mirror) and can optionally be ordered as clear, tinted, graduated tint, heated or with integrated radio aerial. They can also provide the toughened side and rear glass with the heritage logo of your choice. At the moment they do not make the Triplex headlamp glass. The current ill-fitting examples sold by the usuals are made in China but they would like to make them again subject to having dated originals to work from.
Early logo:
Image
1967 logo:
Image

Incidentally no one at Pilkingtons has any idea why the glass was originally dated as it has no known use and modern glass is not dated as a result. Nick Gardiner is trying to fast track the production of the first screen and we hope to have it with Angus in the next couple of weeks. Once Angus is happy I will publish the part number and you can order directly from Nick Gardiner at Pilkingtons Classic to whatever specification you want. While I was there I ordered two side drop glasses to replace the gawd awful ones the previous owner of my FHC had installed. You can see the logos before you see the car!
Image

Big thanks to Bud Marston for inspiring this adventure, Angus for agreeing to cut open his beautifully original '66 FHC and Nick Gardiner and his team for reacting so positively. I will be adding a post on Triplex glass and how to identify it to the Factory Fit thread shortly
Last edited by Heuer on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

Add your E-Type to our World Map: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Simon P
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: London
Great Britain

#2

Post by Simon P » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:48 am

Splendid! Be interested to hear your follow-up impressions on the side glass when it arrives too. I've ended up with exactly the same ones as you currently have - part of the reason why I always drive around everywhere with the windows fully wound down!

Simon
1969 S2 FHC - 1R20258
1993 Lancia Delta HF integrale Evo II

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

PeterCrespin
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Contact:
United States of America

#3

Post by PeterCrespin » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:08 pm

Excellent work. Please put something together on this for Jaguar Journal if you can, once it is known the new type screen DEFINITELY fits Bud's car. It's important for all concerned. If you PM me Bud's number I'll sort his side of things from here.

Can't do anything today as I'm on a bus to Manhattan to talk with Jo Eberhardt, CEO of Jaguar Land Rover North America. First time I taken the bus but it's cheaper than petrol, nearly as quick and about 1/8th the train price. And as you can see, I can type while 'driving' in the dark.

I may be a convert.

E-types? We don' need no steenkin' E-types, we got busses! :wink:
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

chrisfell
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Salisbury
St Lucia

#4

Post by chrisfell » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:15 pm

Just had to go and check my own car.
It appears it still has the original screen - the Triplex mark says it is dated 1967. This matches the car's build date of 21 Feb 1967.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

rolando38
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Grenoble, french Alps
France

#5

Post by rolando38 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:51 pm

Fantastic story and improvements ! congrats

Does Uroglas mean piss-of windscreens ?
;)
2+2 1970

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Red Kite
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:28 am
Location: High Wycombe
Contact:
Great Britain

#6

Post by Red Kite » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:02 pm

I can now see E type owners all over the world visiting their garages and peering at the car windows..... i just did.

Image

Anyway, my car seems to have its original windscreen 1967, car built in Aug 68. But its seen a bit of life so didnt expect that.

Bit of research shows that BS857 was published in 1967, hence i think it refers to the windscreen conforming to BS857 of 1967, not a build date.

http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/ ... 0030158037


Excellent if you can get a supply of correctly fitting windscreens though.
Gerry.
S2 FHC 1R20003

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


neal herridge
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:20 pm
Location: devon
Great Britain

#7

Post by neal herridge » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:37 pm

Many thanks David & Angus for all the work put in to this.
My car still on its original screen could do with a replacement but I have not done so due to all the known problems with the replacements.
Great news for all E-type owners.
Neal.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Alty Ian
Posts: 827
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:24 am
Location: Cheshire
Great Britain

#8

Post by Alty Ian » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:00 pm

Excellent work David and Angus !

You may recall I had loads of problems finding a replacement that fitted for my S3 2+2 windscreen until I persuaded the windscreen people to buy a Pilkingtons one (with the dot under the third X) which fitted like a glove.

I had heard that S1 OTS screens were a problem and CMC had some made to their own pattern, I assume by Pilkington's?

Our 1964 S1 OTS has its original thankfully.
64 S1 4.2 OTS 1E10012 73 S3 2+2 manual 2013 V6 F type OTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Gfhug
Posts: 1903
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: Near Andover, Hampshire,in D.O. Blighty
Great Britain

#9

Post by Gfhug » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:53 pm

I'll add my thanks to David and Angus, good work.

I too have checked mine like Red Kite. A slightly different logo arrangement but still 1967 on a 1969 build car.

That they'll make them with heater elements and integrated aerial shows great initiative by Pilkintons. I'd certainly get the heated version if I ever need a new screen, really like that on my XF.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


christopher storey
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: cheshire , england
Great Britain

#10

Post by christopher storey » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:53 pm

This is splendid news. When I rebuilt my FHC I had 3 new screens from Pilks . The men from Autoglass spent hours trying to fit them , and all 3 were like the one of your American friend which cracked - i.e. they could just get them in but were sure that they would break at the first sign of stress . As a result I used my old one again

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

chrisfell
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Salisbury
St Lucia

#11

Post by chrisfell » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Further info....
The kite mark BS 857-2:1967 relates to the second amendment to the 1967 standard. This amendment was introduced in 1980.

So the screen on my car definitely isn't original.
Not much is.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Stuart Exelby
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:39 am
Location: Oxfordshire
Great Britain

#12

Post by Stuart Exelby » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:38 pm

David - can I ask, do you know if they are able to do OTS windscreens, too - and if they can do anything about the delamination I am suffering at the extreme ends?
1967 Series 1 OTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Topic author
Heuer
Administrator
Posts: 12878
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:29 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire
Great Britain

#13

Post by Heuer » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm

They do make the OTS windscreen and drop glass but we did not get around to discussing it. I know CMC had a batch of OTS screens made presumably because of the fit. Suggest you contact Nick Gardiner (mention the Forum) Nick.Gardiner@nsg.com and ask him about part numbers. He may also be able to advise on de-lamination.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

Add your E-Type to our World Map: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


1954Etype
Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:32 pm
Contact:
Great Britain

#14

Post by 1954Etype » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:20 pm

As Dsvid said, really interesting morning. I only have one correction to make. They won't be making any new moulds but will make up filler pieces to make the same shape as the original screen.
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Nickleback
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:49 pm
Location: West Sussex
Great Britain

#15

Post by Nickleback » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:18 am

Great work David and Angus, windscreens can be so hard to get right and to get a supply of originals will just be excellent.
Getting Angus to do surgery on his 66 must have taken some doing ! 8)
Mike,
1970 S2 FHC 2R28165

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


1954Etype
Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:32 pm
Contact:
Great Britain

#16

Post by 1954Etype » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:17 am

It was only the fact that the rubber had gone and l was desperate to solve a problem Mike! ☺
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


ernie
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:57 pm
Great Britain

#17

Post by ernie » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:52 am

Angus
As my OTS S2 windscreen will be out of the car for a few months (I assume) and is at your workshop... if you have the stamina or someone else has...I am happy for it to be used for a similar research project (I seem to remember that it is a OEM original) :)
:bigrin:
David
1970 S2 OTS its on the road!..... :thankyouyellow: :drinkingcheers: - :seeingstars: )

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


1954Etype
Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:32 pm
Contact:
Great Britain

#18

Post by 1954Etype » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:31 pm

Thanks David, if l go back l will take it down. I don't think there is as much of a problem with the roadster though.
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Bakergt40
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:37 pm
Location: West malling, Kent

#19

Post by Bakergt40 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:23 pm

Nice to see you can still get windscreens easily and fairly local to me about 20 miles. I had a tour of pilkintons a few years ago and actually watched them make my front and rear screen for my GT40. Pete Swann was the man.
Like going back in time but impressive especially watching the laminate fitting.
Roughly what would be the cost of a new fhc screen, not that I need one ?
Series 1 fhc 1964
Southern GT40
Ultima GTR
AMG GTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mystery type
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:46 am
Location: lancashire
Great Britain

#20

Post by mystery type » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:08 pm

Given the condition of my screen (badly de-laminated) i always assumed it was the original screen, but after closer inspection i see its not.
is " sudglas-kristall " German?

The headlamp glasses both bear the triplex logo, but are of different designs.

Image

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic