Screaming blower

Technical advice Q&A

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Dad
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#1 Screaming blower

Post by Dad » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:19 pm

The internal air blower in my series 1 makes a screaming noise when I turn it on. Seems as if the axle is precessing? Any tips? Anyone had this happen? I ask to hopefully avoid having to take it apart.

Many thanks,

Dom
1966 s1 FHC 4.2

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Moeregaard
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#2

Post by Moeregaard » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:24 am

Is it a scraping sound, or does it sound more like a dry bearing? Remove the intake screen and see how much end float there is with the motor shaft. It's possible that the blower wheel is contacting the housing due to excessive float. A dry bearing will just make a squealing noise.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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Dad
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#3

Post by Dad » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:27 am

Yes - a kind of resonant screech so perhaps a dry bearing, as you suggest. So perhaps a stupid question; is the solution simply to access the bearing and oil it? In which case I'm assuming I have to take it apart?
1966 s1 FHC 4.2

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#4

Post by Moeregaard » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:10 pm

The blower motor uses oilite (bronze) bushings at each end. The correct way to lubricate oilite is to submerge it in oil overnight, but this requires pressing out the bushings. The quick-and-dirty method is to just dismantle the motor and apply light machine oil. Never use grease. The fan motor is secured by four screws that hold it and its mounting plate to the heater box--not difficult in the least. You will have to press the blower wheel off of the shaft, and given its age it may break. New units are available. Carefully dismantle the motor to avoid damaging the brushes, and apply oil to the bushings. If it were my car, I would avoid this exercise by just replacing the motor.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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Heuer
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#5

Post by Heuer » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:01 pm

Agree with Moe,I have never successfully managed to repair a squealing motor as it is usually the bearings which are worn because it has been run without lubrication.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#6

Post by Moeregaard » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:07 pm

A cheaper (at least in the U.S.) alternative to the stock Lucas blower motor is the Dayton 2M197 unit, now listed as the Ametek CCC-0038. You can now buy one from Amazon. I did this with one of my E-Types, when I found that the "usual suspects" over here charged about $90 for the Lucas item, and the industrial-supply houses were half that for a better motor--a cheapskate's dream come true. As I recall, the stud centers were identical to the Lucas motor's, and I only had to ream the holes in the mounting plate for a perfect fit. Just about any permanent-magnet motor will work, but I thought I'd share this.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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SEJohnson95
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#7

Post by SEJohnson95 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:29 pm

The heater on the 4.2 makes the same noise from time to time, usually when it passes a certain RPM turning off/on. It was well oiled, I think it's resigned to do that somehow. Part of the character I guess
Simon Johnson
Final year chemistry student at The University of Birmingham
Chasing the dream of a S1 4.2 OTS, but plan on getting an E ASAP!
Occasional contributor to the E-Type Club magazine
Lucky passenger in a 1962 FHC - 860927 - See restoration thread

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#8

Post by Heuer » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:36 pm

No, Jaguar would not have condoned that - the motors would have been silent, as indeed are the rebuilt ones.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#9

Post by SEJohnson95 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:39 pm

TBH it seems to have quietened down an awful lot now, and only infrequently makes the sort of screeching noise. Is it worth taking the fan apart and oiling it again? Maybe a winter job
Simon Johnson
Final year chemistry student at The University of Birmingham
Chasing the dream of a S1 4.2 OTS, but plan on getting an E ASAP!
Occasional contributor to the E-Type Club magazine
Lucky passenger in a 1962 FHC - 860927 - See restoration thread

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#10

Post by Moeregaard » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:11 pm

SEJohnson95 wrote:TBH it seems to have quietened down an awful lot now, and only infrequently makes the sort of screeching noise. Is it worth taking the fan apart and oiling it again? Maybe a winter job
Unless originality and having the proper Lucas date code is important, I would just replace the darn thing and keep going. I'd much rather have a properly functioning heater and demister. That said, being in southern California I learned early on that the E-Type's blower is merely a means for moving hot air from outside the car to the inside!
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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rfs1957
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#11

Post by rfs1957 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:30 pm

"Dayton 2M197 unit, now listed as the Ametek CCC-0038"

Mark - any chance of a photo with it installed ? Looks more or less right ?

I paid 200? cash to some local "motor specialist" to re-wind the original fan-motor, and it started groaning after about 3 hours use .......... so it'll be a replacement this time.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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#12

Post by Moeregaard » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:17 am

Rory, I wish I had photographed my installation. As I recall, the motor wasn't quite as tall as the original Lucas item, but had roughly the same diameter. The only modification required was to ream out the mounting holes, as the Dayton motor has (if recall correctly) 8-32 SAE mounting studs, while the Lucas motor's were something smaller. It's been a few years, but I think I only paid around $30 US for it. Current draw was a little lower as well. Wish I could be of more help.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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#13

Post by rfs1957 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:25 am

May well go down that route, currently 43$.

SNGB ?114 tho' includes plate and ballast - anyone know whether the motor is indeed visually identical ?
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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#14

Post by Heuer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:34 pm

Motor is visually identical but will not accept the original nylon fan cage - you need to buy the repro metal one (which looks horrible in my view!). Richard Smith has a supply of NOS Lucas units which will take the nylon fan cage. They are a later and a lot more powerful motor from an XJ6 I think but look almost exactly the same as the E-Type version and I decided to use one on on my FHC which is as close as I can get to original spec. Only outward difference is a thin silver ring around where the two halves of the motor case join but unless it was pointed out you would never know. You can immediately spot if the fan wheel is wrong though.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#15

Post by Moeregaard » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:05 pm

When I overhauled the heater assembly on my '65 FHC, the only repro fan sold by the usual suspects was metal and expensive. I checked with Moss Motors and the plastic fan (p/n 360-695) used on post-'68 MGBs was almost identical. As I recall I had to ream it to take the E-Type motor's shaft, but the it was much cheaper and worked perfectly.
Mark (Moe) Shipley
Former owner '66FHC, #1E32208
Former owner '65FHC, #1E30036

Planning on getting E-Type No. 3 as soon as possible....

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E6542rdstr
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#16 Re:

Post by E6542rdstr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:02 am

Moeregaard wrote:
Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:10 pm
The correct way to lubricate oilite is to submerge it in oil overnight, but this requires pressing out the bushings.
If you don't want to get involved on the complex extraction of the fan motor and assembly to lubricate the lower bearing: Just attach a reservoir filled with oil at the bottom end of the motor shaft making sure its fully submerged. Fix with tape and leave it on for a day or two, occasionally turn the motor so the shaft distributes the oil. It did a great job for mine, works perfectly & noise is gone.

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