Help needed. - Starter failure

Technical advice Q&A

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LeffeBrune
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#1 Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by LeffeBrune » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am

We are still on our Tour de France. This morning, the car (S1 4.2) did not start. It only made a click when I pushed the starter button. I first thought it might be the battery but after we push started the car, the ampimeter indicated that the battery was charged. We drove for a good 30 minutes before stopping the car and trying to start it again. Same result. After another push start and a 35 minute drive we are now waiting in front Jaguar Bayonne for them to open after their lunch break.

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by mgcjag » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:48 am

Hi..SNG have an office in Paris....worth contacting them to see how quick they can get you a new starter motor if needed.....they can ship very quick.....good luck.. Steve https://www.sngbarratt.com/fr/#!/Français/home
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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chrisfell
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#3 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by chrisfell » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Just in case the fault is worn brushes (on an original M45G starter), give the end of the starter motor a good sharp tap. This may move the worn brush(es) into contact with the commutator.

I used to have to do this a lot when I ran old Brit cars as daily drivers on a limited budget. Back then every large town had an auto electrical shop which could refurb Lucas starters, with new brushes and bearings, clean the commutator and the solenoid contacts. Mine even came back with a new coat of black paint. Alas, they are no more, everyone just fits new these days.

Brushes are available on line (£8!) and can be changed in situ as long as they haven’t been spot welded in place (yes, really!), but it is a real tease and very awkward. Best to remove the starter. If you can.

Many owners get this far and plump for a high torque replacement. Twice the go of the original and half the weight. What’s not to like?

As for SNGBARRATT, I thought they were in Macon.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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MarkRado
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#4 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by MarkRado » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm

Hi, the ammeter may show charging, nevertheless the battery can be very weak (just enough to energize the solenoid - the clicking sound). Batteries dont like heat, and I guess its very hot all over Europe at the moment.
I had a similar problem on the way to very hot Provence a few years ago - the solenoid (which I had replaced days before) failed; luckily I had the old one as a spare with me. Good luck to you :drinkingcheers:
Mark
1963 OTS 880436 - since 1988

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Mark Gordon
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#5 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by Mark Gordon » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:58 pm

:yeahthat:
The first thing that I'd try is to jump start your engine. If it fires up, you'll know that it's a battery or other non-starter related electrical problem. Weak battery is the best guess.
Mark

67 OTS 1E14988, 2002 VDP

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Heuer
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#6 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by Heuer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:02 pm

Yes, SNGB are in Charnay-lès-Mâcon and they could overnight a new starter to your Hotel if you act quickly. They are open until 18:00CEDT. Tel: +33 385 201 420 and have the uprated starter motor in stock: https://www.sngbarratt.com/fr/#!/Englis ... 06e9274a5a

Hopefully it is just a low battery. You need a Classic Car garage as they will have the correct imperial tools.

Use Huberts map to find one: https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid ... 343748&z=6

Toulouse is the nearest but if you are heading north there are a couple around Nantes.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#7 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by LeffeBrune » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:07 pm

Thanks to all for the quick responses. Jaguar Bayonne send us to a garage specialized in classic cars. Turned out it was not the starter but the alternator. They will replace it. However, there are 2 other issues: loss of oil and a strange sound. Hopefully all done when we leave for home on Monday.

This the garage https://www.theworkshop.fr

May be good to know if others have a problem in this area.

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ralphr1780
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#8 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by ralphr1780 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm

Hi Georg, hope you will be back on the road soon.
Such events add a little spice to the journey. :bigrin:
Did you see the alternator/ignition light staying on while driving?
This is supposed to go on once your alternator is not charging anymore.
If they change the alternator, do ask for the old one and carry it along in the trunk.
Good luck and best wishes for continued smooth ride.
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

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Heuer
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#9 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by Heuer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:33 pm

Excellent! Keep us informed of progress.

Ralph - depends on the model year. The 4.2's had an ignition light which was operated by (and I am not making this up) an oil pressure switch. The reasoning being if there was no oil pressure the engine must not be running therefore not charging! It was really to tell you if the ignition was left on which could drain the battery or damage the coil.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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LeffeBrune
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#10 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by LeffeBrune » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:41 pm

Lucky it happened today as we had planned to spend time with friends from Brussels in this area. The hotel we booked was just 30 minutes away from the garage. Our friends picked us up and ee are now relaxing in the hotel waiting for a call from the garage. Will keep you posted.

I think we may have put a bit too much strain on the car. Yesterday, we did Aspin, Tourmalet, Aubisqe. Some 4500 Meter ascent. And while I did not drive aggressively, mans roads are quite bumpy and I would not be surprised if more than one part got a bit loose. But it was sooooo much fun!

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Gfhug
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#11 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by Gfhug » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:04 pm

LeffeBrune wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:41 pm
But it was sooooo much fun!
:bigrin: :bigrin:
S2 FHC Light Blue

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MarkRado
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#12 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by MarkRado » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:00 am

:yeahthat:
Mark
1963 OTS 880436 - since 1988

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ralphr1780
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#13 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by ralphr1780 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:02 am

Thanks David, I too learn some new stuff every day. Now I know which series to avoid buying. :bigrin:
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

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#14 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by JagWaugh » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 am

chrisfell wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:28 pm
This may move the worn brush(es) into contact with the commutator.
Same goes for the alternator brushes. It's a bit of a fiddle to get them pinned back into the holder to be able to reinstall them, but sometimes pulling the holder, blowing out the space and the holder with contact spray and stretching the springs will give you just enough to make it to the next town.

The town probably won't have a shop which stocks replacement brush sets, or rebuilds alternators anymore, but that is a different story.

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LeffeBrune
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#15 Re: Help needed. - Starter failure

Post by LeffeBrune » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:41 pm

Got the car back today. Turned out that the electrical problem was the battery not the dynamo/ alternator. The oil leak was linked to a joint at the oil pressure pump. The garage also fixed 2 gas leaks.

BTW, the guy who owns the garage races the Le Mans Vlasddic every year and in his younger days raced the real Le Mans. Very friendly and excellent service.

Now fingers crossed for a return to Brussels without any problems.

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