Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Technical advice Q&A

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Durango2k
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#1 Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:58 pm

Hi all,

I took 2 pictures of what I have per side:

Image

Image

Of course I have more of the shown bolts, they‘re just samples here.

My question is now:

-which lamp kit do I need from SNG ? I found JLM9609K*, but the text says its a replacement for LHD sealed beams, so forbidden in Germany. I need H4 + bulbs. Then, I do not need the version with the small bulb in the refractor, as I can use the front sidelights (I have a set of full clear front indicator glasses, will need to buy 2 yellow glasses and slide them on the clear parking lights).

- how is it all put together: which of the screws do what ? I understand the spring will hold the silver bowl in the black bowl under tension. The lamp will be bolted into the silver bowl (how ?).

- adjustment: the silver bowl is adjusted via 2 adjustement bolts as SNG offers. But in my case, there are 2 smaller nuts kept in cages in the black bowls, in which the adjustment bolts could be screwd into. Do they go in from the back, pushing the silver bowl forward ? SNG show two small clamps. Where do they belong, I do not have them.

Perhaps a few fotos would help a lot....

Many thanks- I want to place an order at SNG, but cannot until I know what I need....

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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Durango2k
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#2 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:10 pm

Hm-do the black and the silver bowls differ between S1 and S1.5 ? I am not sure, but looking at SNG‘s catalogue it seems to be so.

Could I use the 1.5 parts anyway in an S1 environment ? How could I solve this ? I feel I have to try it ?

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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ralphr1780
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#3 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by ralphr1780 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:48 pm

Carsten, the JLM9609K is a "replacement" for the sealed beams, it is NOT a sealed beam and is intended for use with H4 halogen bulbs (and for LHD cars).
Personally, to replace the sealed beams on mine, I have fitted a pair of Lucas bought in combination with other parts from DM: http://www.jagspares.co.uk/Manners/part ... tno=MGE203
They come with the H4 bulbs included.
As for the order of assembly, better to look in the wsm or a parts catalogue, it is rather logical and simple.

For your sidelights, the clear plastic is much nicer looking than the two tone one. Instead of sliding a yellow sheet you may consider fitting an orange bulb for the flasher :bigrin:
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

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67ots
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#4 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by 67ots » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:40 am

Carsten,

The black bowl is different between the S1 and the S1.5. On the S1.5 it is dome shaped but on the S1 it sits further back in the bonnet so this would rub on the tyre.... so it has a flat section at the rear, pointing slightly downhill when fitted, to keep it clear. You could fit a S1 bowl to a S1.5 but not the other way round.

Simon.
‘67 OTS

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Durango2k
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#5 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:23 pm

I have the dished ones, see above.

How is the silver bowl (in which the lamp is clamped into using the front ring) attached to the black bowl ? All I can see is the spring plus two nuts kept on the black bowl using stainless (?) retainers (cages). SNG offer long thin bolts for adjustment, maybe they fit this style.

Which bolt size is needed to mount the black bowls into the diaphragma panels ? My diaphragma panels have 4 small „pots“ on them, with a thread inside, and I guess I need quite thin screws for them ? Chuck from MM states he does not use the „pots“, because it’s easier to use rear-side-open nuts. But I opted for factory spec wherever possible, hence the will to keep the small pot solution.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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Series1 Stu
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#6 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Series1 Stu » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:01 pm

Hi Carsten

Happy New Year.

The headlamp assemblies are pretty much standard across a wide range of vehicles and I think you will find the same parts used on most vehicles of the fifties, sixties and into the seventies. However, the Series 1 E Type is different because of the flattened pods. See picture borrowed from someone's blog


Image

You could cut the back of the pods off and weld a flat on to them to replicate the Series 1 pods.

I believe all of the other hardware is the same but don't forget the seals that go between the pods and the diaphragm panels. These are expensive from the usual suppliers but are about half the price if you get them from another specialist eg. Triumph or other BL company. I have a pair brand new and unused surplus to requirements.

The pods are mounted using short screws with IIRC bigger than normal heads. They fit into blind tapped bosses to maintain the seal between the lamp and the wheel arch.

The lamps are secured to the silver dish using self tapping screws to secure the chrome bezel.

The spring and two long shoulder screws form the retention and adjustment mechanism. There should be springs sitting between the screws and the silver dish.

I've tried looking for an exploded view online but failed so far.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'94 X300 XJR basket case

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Durango2k
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#7 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:46 pm

Hi Stuart,

Nice to read you‘re back from the giant fridge :-)

I‘ll assemble my set as far as I can get once I received the lamps plus the adjuster bolts. I think that with my pictures we could then work out a solution.

I do have the correct (dished) black bowls.

I thought I might take a look at my Imp clone, but the Centaur uses Renault front lamps which are concave, not convexe.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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eddiecross
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#8 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by eddiecross » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:36 am

Hi,
SNG updated their website recently and easier to view the assemblies:

https://www.sngbarratt.com/uk/#!/Englis ... HEADLIGHTS

Eddie

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Durango2k
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#9 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:21 pm

Yes I noticed that.

However, my assembly differs when it comes to adjustments. It may be incomplete, and the new parts do not match the old design.

In my case, there are nuts in stainless cages on the black bowl. In the SNG diagramm, you can see a long bolt which is screwed into the silver bowl, and leans itself against a „bridge“ which is clamped onto the black bowl.

Thus I decided to order the special long adjuster bolts, and see how far I can get with them.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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#10 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:17 pm

Today I found the long adjuster bolts, with the shoulder on top where they sit in the silver bowl. I ordered 4 from SNG, but maybe send them back one day.

Now, I really need to know which bolts are used in these little taps here:

Image

Image

Image

Image


They cannot be that long (1/2“ ?), and I have none.

All I found is one slotted bolt which seems to be correct- it has a diameter of 4.6 mm and it seems to be UNF.
I cannot decipher this to imperial, and it is not „napoleonic“.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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#11 Re: Front lamp assembly S1 help needed

Post by Durango2k » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:48 pm

Then, does anyone have an idea where to get these springs from ?

Image

Image

They are the springs for the adjuster bolts on the lamp bowls- without them the adjustment can change by itself, say on bumpy roads.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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