Oil cooler position

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288gto
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#21 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:55 am

Hi Peter,

I was unaware myself until Rob told me.
There are certainly two valve mechanisms within the housing. I thought it was just a bypass valve for the rad. How it works I'm not sure.

I ended up priming the oil cooler and pipes just in case for the first fire up.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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dal2.0litrefrogeye
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#22 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by dal2.0litrefrogeye » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:02 am

Hi just an add on . I am using a oil thermostat in line too the Mocol type one . Would never use an oil cooler system without a thermostat in place
Its a way of life not a hobby

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Heuer
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#23 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by Heuer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:57 am

You also need to be circumspect as to where you fit the oil cooler radiator as it is going to block part of the water radiator so it becomes a 'game of consequences'! The only place you can reasonably fit one is in front of the the main rad and you must make sure it sits tight up against it with no air gap.
David Jones
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288gto
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#24 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:04 pm

Heuer wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:57 am
You also need to be circumspect as to where you fit the oil cooler radiator as it is going to block part of the water radiator so it becomes a 'game of consequences'! The only place you can reasonably fit one is in front of the the main rad and you must make sure it sits tight up against it with no air gap.
Interestingly Rob does a kit that avoids this but probably not suitable for a road car because of ground clearance.


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PeterCrespin
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#25 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by PeterCrespin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:23 pm

Just to confirm, no XK engine ever had an oil thermostat. The cooler fitted to some (mainly export?) late Series 3 XJs was a full-flow design that would have needed a bypass system to divert the flow when cold. No such bypass or temperature-dependent flow control ever appeared on the XK engine, only pressure relief and filter bypass valves.
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288gto
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#26 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:33 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:23 pm

Just to confirm........No such bypass or temperature-dependent flow control ever appeared on the XK engine, only pressure relief and filter bypass valves.
Hi Peter,
I've just spoken at length to Rob Beere who assures me that the XJ6 Series 3 4.2 horizontal oil filter housing with the take offs for the oil cooler does have an oil cooler rad bypass valve. In certain race applications they actually remove this to allow full flow at all times.

I have looked at another identical filter housing I have and that too has the valve.

I'm trying to find the part number for you for this bypass valve if anyone has a Jaguar XJ6 S3 parts catalogue they can look in for me.

Simon
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PeterCrespin
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#27 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:12 am

Interesting, thanks. I asked Nigel Boycott who worked for years in Jaguar’s engine building/engine rectification dept and has made his living building them ever since. He has half a dozen on the go ‘as we speak’. I’ll send you some pix of an S3 filter block.

As a matter of interest, did you mention me by name?

Pete

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#28 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by steve3.8 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:41 am

This is from a Jdh parts catalogue , is it the correct one ? .
I do have a filter head and cooler pipes if photos are needed .


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288gto
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#29 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:07 pm

Thanks Steve,

Looking at your picture above, perhaps this is what is causing the confusion. The filter housing shown above does not show an oil cooler bypass valve.
I am struggling find a detailed exploded parts diagram for the oil cooler type filter housing EAC3146PA

The XJ6 Series 3 horizontal filter housing with outlet pipes at the top for the oil cooler pipes is a different housing and incorporates the elusive bypass valve.

Peter, sorry I didn't mention you when I soke to Rob Beere, just queried the presence of a bypass valve.

I'll try to post up a pic tonight if I get chance. Darren has also mentioned that it would be interesting to get a laser thermometer and compare the housing and pipes when the engine is cold and then again when hot to see if the valve ( which I can neither confirm nor deny exists) works.

What I really want to find is a Jaguar part number and description for the second valve in my housing.

Simon
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PeterCrespin
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#30 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by PeterCrespin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:55 pm

I’m glad you didn’t mention me Simon! I’m in the market for some racing bits from him and don’t want to fall out. George got back to me and there’s no mention in the parts books and he’s never heard or seen of it. Sorry.

Here’s one housing I have. The oil cooler plugs are just loosely in place for other people’s info. The pressure relief valve is on the right and the dark small valve on the left is a separate relief valve which diverts the oil from the inlet side of the filter if it is left to clog, and diverts unfiltered oil to the bearings. Not great, but better than seizing!



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288gto
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#31 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:21 am

Thanks for posting the pic Peter,

I'm curious why they would only fit a filter bypass valve to models with an oil cooler?

Also why does this valve separate the two chambers of the flow and return of the oil cooler pipes?

As I understand the lower port in your pic ( numbered 2 in mine) is the supply into the filter from the pump. If so how does this valve effectively bypass the filter? Port numbered 1 below is the return from the filter back into the block.

This is my understanding of how the filter and housing works.

Oil under pressure from the pump enters port 2, travels through either the cooler or the bypass valve into port 3 then through the filter into port 1 and then back into the block.

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I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic Peter, I'm curious to know for my own peace of mind as I would rather the flow through the oil cooler be metered so to speak when cold.



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mark10337
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#32 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by mark10337 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:34 am

From looking at it, it is a oil cooler pressure release valve not an oil filter pressure release.
Oil flows either via the cooler or the valve from chamber 2 to chamber 3,
Don't the oil filter's themselves have their own pressure release internally? - Keen to understand this also.
-Mark

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'Life's to short to drive a boring car'

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PeterCrespin
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#33 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by PeterCrespin » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:52 am

Pedantry has its place in keeping on track. We started talking thermostats but seamlessly segued into pressure relief bypasses, which whilst sharing some features are not directly comparable. That meant some answers were correct for one but not the other.

Original query was re an alleged thermostatic valve to avoid over cooling. If we have put that to bed as a myth then we can talk about other stuff.

Unfortunately, I am now leading my usual nomadic UK visit life cadging lodgings hither and yon until I leave the UK on 28th. That means I am away from my cylinder blocks, filter housings etc and only a tiny iPhone for typing. Ergo, not much is going to come from me as my interest was the thermostat. The rest of the queries can be answered by direct observation, which I can't do at the moment but progress is being made regardless.

I assume cartridges vary but think filter valves are usually anti drain-back. The cartridge is constructed to ensure all oil is filtered to the max and my guess is that filter blockage protection would be something the engine constructor would design into his engine, not rely on a filter when engine owners could fit any cheap old tat years later? I'm inly guessing though...
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288gto
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#34 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by 288gto » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:40 am

Hi Peter,

As I understand based on what Rob told me, the valve works on oil viscosity. The colder and therefore thicker the oil, the less is allowed through the oil cooler. As the oil warms up, more is allowed through the oil cooler.

While not thermostatic in itself, there is a correlation between the temperature and viscosity of the oil and the action of the valve. That bit was pedantic :lol:

If you are in the East Cheshire area as part of your Nomadic travels Peter, you are more than welcome to pop in for a brew, look at blocks and filter housings and discuss the intricacies of Jaguar plumbing. :lol:

Enjoy your travels in sunny old England.

Simon
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dal2.0litrefrogeye
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#35 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by dal2.0litrefrogeye » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 am

Wow I only asked where abouts ish was a good position for the oil cooler :seeingstars:
I daren't ask my next question ....... what position to leave my wheels spinners in when parked ?? :scratchheadyellow: :lol: :lol: :P
Its a way of life not a hobby

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malcolm
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#36 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by malcolm » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:23 am

dal2.0litrefrogeye wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 am
Wow I only asked where abouts ish was a good position for the oil cooler :seeingstars:
I daren't ask my next question ....... what position to leave my wheels spinners in when parked ?? :scratchheadyellow: :lol: :lol: :P
Verticallly preferably! :lol:
Malcolm
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Heuer
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#37 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by Heuer » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:44 am

Horizontally in my view so the Jaguar logo is parallel to the ground. :shock:
David Jones
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#38 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by Gfhug » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:38 am

Except for our antipodean friends who'll insist on it being upside down :lol:
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#39 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by dal2.0litrefrogeye » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:43 am

Rrrr??? But here's the rub !! They're 3 eared peg drive spinners .... yep genuine non genuine spinners :bouncyyellow:
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#40 Re: Oil cooler position

Post by PeterCrespin » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:56 pm

"While not thermostatic in itself, there is a correlation between the temperature and viscosity of the oil and the action of the valve."

I knew you'd say that! :-). Are you a politician? A response worthy of a Nicholas Winterton constituent.

Reminds me of Eric & Ernie and Andre Previn, talking about "all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." You might as well say the Saab three cylinder two-stroke is just like the XK because they both use petrol and spark plugs to fire three cylinders per rev. :salute:

l shall be in East Cheshire, DV, so drop me a pm with your number.

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