Which ignition system?

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malcolm
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#1 Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:57 pm

Hi all. I have a normal (black) distributor cap, and the distributor has a normal rotor arm. However, in place of a contact breaker set there is a small red plastic looking module. It just screws onto the plate, and I understand I could just replace it with a normal contact breaker. I can't post a photo as I'm away, but can someone tell me what system it is, and where I can buy a replacement? Help would be much appreciated
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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JagWaugh
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#2 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by JagWaugh » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:09 pm

Malcom,

There are a couple of manufacturers. Looking at google, "Hotspark" and "powerspark" both appear to be red.

As far as I know they all also include a (star) wheel which slips over the lobed shaft, so if you're stuck somewhere and you have a set of points and a condenser, take the bit off the lobed shaft, install your points and condenser, set your static, and be on your way.

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mgcjag
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#3 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:24 pm

Hi Malcom could even be Pertronix...some models are red....does it not have a label or printing on...
Edti..basically they all come a two parts..the unit with wires and an actuating ring that slipes over the cam lobe....so if your stuck anyone you can get..or put the points back on
Last edited by mgcjag on Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#4 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by cactusman » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:35 pm

Accuspark are red...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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#5 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:30 pm

Thanks for the replies guys. I need to get the magnifying glass out and see if there's a name on it as suggested. I looked up Petronyx and there is a red one that looks like mine. Guess I need to be sure? When these things screw on the plate, do you need to be careful with positioning/setting, or is it just bolt them down and away you go?
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#6 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by christopher storey » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:12 am

It's not just a put it on and forget it situation. The critical adjustment in nearly all the electronic systems is the air gap between the reluctor ( the rotating bit assuming that it has one) and the sensor , and this varies with the type of system i.e. whether magnetic or optical . Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but identifying the system is the first essential

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#7 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks Christopher. Just getting back from the trip now, so will be able to have another look and try to identify better.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#8 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:13 pm

I'm home now! So, I've looked carefully and there is no writing to identify the ignition part. I've got some pics now:

Image

I've taken the rotor arm out, and you can see it sits on a plate which bolts straight onto where the points would go. Few more pics:
Image
Image

There are 2 wires. One goes to the positive side of the coil, the other to the inlet manifold balance tube?, as in pic:

Image

So, any idea what make/manufacturer it is?
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#9 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by cactusman » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:27 pm

No....looks like mine...has to be said that the modules are essentially all the same. They are hall effect. The collar that pops over the rotor arm spigot has magnets in that trigger the module. Hence very important to get the gap between module and collar as little as poss for reliable triggering. It will contain a hall effect (magnetic) sensor, bit of electronics and a (probably) MOSFET transistor that switches the coil current on and off. Bet that what ever brand you buy they are made in China and most likely in the same factory and production line. Pertonix, Accuspsrk,Powerspark, hot spark what ever....just a brand name. They all need a live supply - red wire (from the ign ) with the second black wire going to the CB terminal on the coil.
Lumenition is different as it has an optical sensor in the distributor and the electronics are housed outside in a separate module.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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#10 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by Heuer » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:51 pm

Could be one of these: http://www.simonbbc.com/index.php?main_ ... a21eb9fcf8

It just replaces the points, no electronics beyond the module.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
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#11 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:28 pm

Thanks David and Julian! That powerspark module looks like the one! I've checked the site, and they do a negative earth one for my car too. I'll give them a ring tomorrow.
Question: Why does one of the two leads go to the inlet manifold (as in my picture)
Only one (red) lead goes to the positive of the coil. Whats with the manifold wire?
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#12 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by Heuer » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:33 pm

The pictured wire on the manifold is for the temperature gauge, nothing to do with the ignition. That is the temp sensor on the manifold. The red wire from the module goes to the coil, the black wire goes to earth.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

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#13 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by mgcjag » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:45 pm

Hi Malcom...what is that white connector in your photos above...is it part of a ballast resistor cct... Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#14 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:51 pm

Got it! When tracing the wire, I got crossed up half way and ended up following the wrong wire! You are (of course, as usual!) correct, and now I'm feeling ready to order and fit. Thanks again everyone.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#15 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by johnetype » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:15 pm

Heuer wrote:The red wire from the module goes to the coil, the black wire goes to earth.
Er, no, the convention for these modules is that the red wire goes to an ignition switched supply. The often used way is to connect the red wire to the +ve feed to the coil but if you do that then you're likely to find the rev counter stops working reliably. It is best to take the red wire back to the fuseboard behind the instrument panel and connect to one of the spare lucars that is connected to an ignition supply who's wires are traditionally coloured white.

The black wire from the module (sometimes blue) goes to the connection on the coil where the points used to connect to (CB or -ve). Usually this is achieved by connecting it to the black wire that went to the side of the distributor before the module was fitted and allows for easiest reversion to points if ever needed at the roadside.

The module itself is earthed via the distributor baseplate and as you can see in the pictures above a white coloured wire has been added to the distributor connecting the baseplate to the distributor body. This is a good thing that improves reliability by ensuring a good earth.

This is the link to the Powerspark -ve earth module which is a bit cheaper than the +ve earth one David linked above. Powerspark also sell on eBay as Simonbbc:

http://www.simonbbc.com/electronic-igni ... n-kit-25d6

Hard to tell from the pictures but I'd suggest your red module is spaced further away from the black rotor than it should be or needs to be. The red module should be adjusted (it uses the same spacing mechanism as the points it replaces) so it's just not touching the black rotor at any point as the black rotor rotates. You haven't said why you need a replacement but if you suspect the module of intermittent working, this may be why.

John
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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#16 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by mgcjag » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Hi John...on Neg earth cars.....if your running a ballast resistor system then you want the red going to the ignition side of the resistor and not on the coil....but if your not running ballast then you can connect to the red to the pos side of the coil....i am running a Pertronix (non ballast) connected directly to the coil as there instructions specify also simonbbc specify connect red to coil https://blog.simonbbc.com/faq-helper-pa ... -cylinder/
The Pertronix and also the Simon. Modual fit straight to the distributor baseplate so no adjustment i needed
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#17 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:33 am

I'm a non-ballast system, and as per the instructions I fitted the red wire to the +ve coil connector. Car now running great, so thanks bundles guys.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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#18 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by Hugo » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:03 am

johnetype wrote:
Heuer wrote:The red wire from the module goes to the coil, the black wire goes to earth.
The black wire from the module (sometimes blue) goes to the connection on the coil where the points used to connect to (CB or -ve).....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on every coil I have seen that is marked SW and CB, the CB is pos. These were all (as far as I know) fitted to pos earth cars. I presume you are talking about E Types with pos earth having such a coil, but the phrase "CB or -ve" caught my eye as I think it could be misleading.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

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#19 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by johnetype » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:14 pm

mgcjag wrote:Hi John...on Neg earth cars.....if your running a ballast resistor system then you want the red going to the ignition side of the resistor and not on the coil....but if your not running ballast then you can connect to the red to the pos side of the coil....i am running a Pertronix (non ballast) connected directly to the coil as there instructions specify also simonbbc specify connect red to coil https://blog.simonbbc.com/faq-helper-pa ... -cylinder/
The Pertronix and also the Simon. Modual fit straight to the distributor baseplate so no adjustment i needed
Steve, simonbbc's instructions ignore the peculiarities of the current triggered Smiths rev counter and to ensure you don't have problems with the rev counter continuing to work reliably, it's best to wire the red wire as I suggested.

The modules fit to the baseplate in the same way as points and adjust the same way as points do to get the correct clearance between the module and the rotor.

John
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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#20 Re: Which ignition system?

Post by malcolm » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:57 am

I'll take the cap off today and try and get the module as close to the black magnet as possible. Thanks for the tip.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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