1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
#1 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Newbie on here ...
The restorer (v experienced name in Jag circles so knows his stuff) did a few hundred shake-down miles before handing it over. It has sat with me for the best part of a year. I am now trying to get some more miles on it before it's first service.
The problem I'm having is that the car starts and runs well for a few miles/minutes. But if it stops you will be lucky to get it to re-start. This happened embarrassingly at the MOT station (had to wait about 20 mins before able to restart) and on the couple of miles home the throttle felt 'woolly' and the engine felt like it was going to conk out if I let the revs drop. It eventually did, within sight of home and so another 15 minutes of waiting for the thing to start again.
The restorer is a 3.5hr drive away so I cannot simply drop it back to be checked over.
From what I have read there are about 3 possibilities of varying likelihood;
1. The fuel has gone off or is 'winter grade'. I don't think that would happen in a year and the cars starts ok when cold.
2. The coil is failing when it reaches a certain temp and then is ok again at lower temp.
3. The carb settings need adjusting. (A dark art I don't want to play with)
Is there a magic EType fix I'm missing?
Should a reasonable Jag Specialist be able to get to the bottom of this i.e. not rocket science?
The restorer (v experienced name in Jag circles so knows his stuff) did a few hundred shake-down miles before handing it over. It has sat with me for the best part of a year. I am now trying to get some more miles on it before it's first service.
The problem I'm having is that the car starts and runs well for a few miles/minutes. But if it stops you will be lucky to get it to re-start. This happened embarrassingly at the MOT station (had to wait about 20 mins before able to restart) and on the couple of miles home the throttle felt 'woolly' and the engine felt like it was going to conk out if I let the revs drop. It eventually did, within sight of home and so another 15 minutes of waiting for the thing to start again.
The restorer is a 3.5hr drive away so I cannot simply drop it back to be checked over.
From what I have read there are about 3 possibilities of varying likelihood;
1. The fuel has gone off or is 'winter grade'. I don't think that would happen in a year and the cars starts ok when cold.
2. The coil is failing when it reaches a certain temp and then is ok again at lower temp.
3. The carb settings need adjusting. (A dark art I don't want to play with)
Is there a magic EType fix I'm missing?
Should a reasonable Jag Specialist be able to get to the bottom of this i.e. not rocket science?
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#2 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Sounds like a carb issue to me. They aren't as hard to tune/balance as you might think. Have a look in the handbook (if you don't have one with the car, they are easy enough to get) OR, any decent e type friendly garage will be able to sort it. Where are you based? Let us know, and I'm sure people will be able to recommend someone not too far away.
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#3 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Hi Whats your name......car sat for a year not used.....could be coil, points, rotor arm, condensor, or carb adjustment, fuel sat for a year could cause problems........as you say not complicated to solve just needs working through, anyone competent shoukd be able to solve it.....first easy thing is a new coil, you can do this yourself.....are you also able to pull the distributor cap and check yourself... Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#4 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Hi "Porkman"
Before doing anything, I'll check the fuel link because it seems that it don't come to the SU as much as it must.
I don't think the SU are faulty, if there where only one witout not enough fuel the other one take the engine on. Badly but they take it on.
What I will do :
- Check the filter into the glass near the engine.
- Check your pump but I think it's new after a restoration.
- Dismount the link of the fuel after the glass filter ( juste before the dispatching ramp for the SU )
and put the power to check if the fuel arrive well. Beware with the fire !!!
The best to check this is when the car is beakdown of course.
If the engine run well when it's cold, you'll see nothing with the car cold.
Just a thing, when the engine began to stop did you try to put the choke on ?
Start to eliminating the fuel fault. One "solution" after one.
Hope it help you
Mich
Before doing anything, I'll check the fuel link because it seems that it don't come to the SU as much as it must.
I don't think the SU are faulty, if there where only one witout not enough fuel the other one take the engine on. Badly but they take it on.
What I will do :
- Check the filter into the glass near the engine.
- Check your pump but I think it's new after a restoration.
- Dismount the link of the fuel after the glass filter ( juste before the dispatching ramp for the SU )
and put the power to check if the fuel arrive well. Beware with the fire !!!
The best to check this is when the car is beakdown of course.
If the engine run well when it's cold, you'll see nothing with the car cold.
Just a thing, when the engine began to stop did you try to put the choke on ?
Start to eliminating the fuel fault. One "solution" after one.
Hope it help you
Mich
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#5 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
you can just sell me the car and I will sort it out if you like!!
I would think its electrical rather than fuel. If it is fuel I would think its old fuel rather than carburettors. Assuming that all that was done, and it ran ok before conking, it would not make sense for them to go out of tune when hot. 90% of Carburettor problems turn out to be ignition! I would be looking at whether the incorrect coil has been fitted namely a Ballasted coil where it should not be which would overheat. I would be looking inside the distributor for signs of tracking ( overheating the coil) and burnt points. I have exactly this same situation on another non Jaguar car and it turned out to be a points gap that was too small. Fine it seemed when cold not so when hot! Anyway, I am sure its easy to find just a matter of going through things and not altering things if they are not obviously at fault. I also just had a similar problem with an early Range Rover which turned out to be a faulty brand new fuel pump. Good luck.
I would think its electrical rather than fuel. If it is fuel I would think its old fuel rather than carburettors. Assuming that all that was done, and it ran ok before conking, it would not make sense for them to go out of tune when hot. 90% of Carburettor problems turn out to be ignition! I would be looking at whether the incorrect coil has been fitted namely a Ballasted coil where it should not be which would overheat. I would be looking inside the distributor for signs of tracking ( overheating the coil) and burnt points. I have exactly this same situation on another non Jaguar car and it turned out to be a points gap that was too small. Fine it seemed when cold not so when hot! Anyway, I am sure its easy to find just a matter of going through things and not altering things if they are not obviously at fault. I also just had a similar problem with an early Range Rover which turned out to be a faulty brand new fuel pump. Good luck.
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#6 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Thanks for replies;
Re my location I'm just to the west of Heathrow.
My restorer recommends Winspeed in my neck of the woods but it's too far to drive in its current state so would have to be transported.
Within a few miles of me is Powerbell who I am tempted to use.
Re my location I'm just to the west of Heathrow.
My restorer recommends Winspeed in my neck of the woods but it's too far to drive in its current state so would have to be transported.
Within a few miles of me is Powerbell who I am tempted to use.
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#7 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Have you tried a mobile engineer? The E-Type is nothing special and easy to work on. Any competent mechanic should be able to sort the problem. Fuel standing for a year is not an issue and there is no 'winter grade' petrol, that is reserved for diesel which becomes waxy when cold. If the fuel pump was dickey the car would not start from cold - you should be able to hear the ticking when you switch the ignition on. The SU's are unlikely to be at fault as they do not go out of tune with standing and if they did it would be performance that would suffer. That leaves us with electrics as Andrew has suggested. Does the car have electronic ignition? Replace the coil (Lucas HA12) and if it has a contact breaker in the dizzy install a new condenser.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#8 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
And if it has a black rotor arm, replace it with a red one from The Distributor Doctor
Ray
Ray
S1 FHC 3.8, XK Convertible
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#9 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Long shot but it could be a non vented fuel cap. Take it off and see if it has a hole in it. (Yours should)
Angus 67 FHC 1E33656
61 OTS 875047
61 OTS 875047
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#10 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Oh Oh, two teams in competition !!
Team Fuel
Team electric
Let us know M.Porkman ( A name could be more easy...) who's going to WIN
LONG LIVE GAZOLINE - SHUTS DOWN ELECTRICITY
Team Fuel
Team electric
Let us know M.Porkman ( A name could be more easy...) who's going to WIN
LONG LIVE GAZOLINE - SHUTS DOWN ELECTRICITY
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#11 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
I second that this is electrical. I had a similar issue on my TR4 and turned out to be the rotor arm. As suggested get a new one from the Distributor Doctor and whilst you're at it get a condensor also. If it turns out not to be these then you'll always have a spare. Only takes 2 mins to change the rotor arm.
Myles
Myles
1964 RHD 3.8 FHC
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#12 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
I'd start with a new red rotor arm...
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#13 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Thanks again for the ideas;
I'm more persuaded by the electrical suggestions- these items are more likely to go out of whack with heat (and then return to normal) than the fuelling systems I would think.
I may try replacing these, one at a time and see where this gets me. They are fairly cheap and I will at least learn some maintenance on this car!
If none of that works, professional help will be sought because it will then be way beyond my primitive skills.
I'm more persuaded by the electrical suggestions- these items are more likely to go out of whack with heat (and then return to normal) than the fuelling systems I would think.
I may try replacing these, one at a time and see where this gets me. They are fairly cheap and I will at least learn some maintenance on this car!
If none of that works, professional help will be sought because it will then be way beyond my primitive skills.
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
-
- Posts: 4561
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:22 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland.
- Contact:
#14 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
I love your writing Michel. It makes me think of good coffee, fabulous croissants and the smell of Gitanes or Disque Bleu. Fuel arriving well (not sickly) and the remaining carbs taking the engine on (like soldiers helping a wounded comrade) are lovely expressions.Mich7920 wrote:Hi "Porkman"
Before doing anything, I'll check the fuel link because it seems that it don't come to the SU as much as it must.
I don't think the SU are faulty, if there where only one witout not enough fuel the other one take the engine on. Badly but they take it on.
What I will do :
- Check the filter into the glass near the engine.
- Check your pump but I think it's new after a restoration.
- Dismount the link of the fuel after the glass filter ( juste before the dispatching ramp for the SU )
and put the power to check if the fuel arrive well. Beware with the fire !!!
The best to check this is when the car is beakdown of course.
If the engine run well when it's cold, you'll see nothing with the car cold.
Just a thing, when the engine began to stop did you try to put the choke on ?
Start to eliminating the fuel fault. One "solution" after one.
Hope it help you
Mich
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#15 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Fifteen years ago, I spent hours, spread over weeks, and towed the car twice, chasing down an electrical problem that turned out to be that almost ALL the HT leads were breaking down to earth, in the hidden area where they tuck down alongside the block on their way down to the distributor.
Slipping a bit of rag under the loom was all it took.
I say "Fifteen years" in order to emphasise that I've got a LOT better since then.
But the symptoms were EXACTLY the same - and they involved an MoT station, so I'm obviously right.
Slipping a bit of rag under the loom was all it took.
I say "Fifteen years" in order to emphasise that I've got a LOT better since then.
But the symptoms were EXACTLY the same - and they involved an MoT station, so I'm obviously right.
Rory
3.8 OTS S1 Opalescent Silver Grey - built May 28th 1962
3.8 OTS S1 Opalescent Silver Grey - built May 28th 1962
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#16 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Hi Peter,
Well I just stop to laugh...
I'm going to take more English lessons and perhaps that what I'm going to write will smell tea, pudding and pipe tobacco as Sherlock.
For the smell of Big Block, pancakes and Camel, it will come in a second time ...
Mich
Well I just stop to laugh...
I'm going to take more English lessons and perhaps that what I'm going to write will smell tea, pudding and pipe tobacco as Sherlock.
For the smell of Big Block, pancakes and Camel, it will come in a second time ...
Mich
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
1965 E Type FHC - On the road / 1963 E Type OTS - on the road after Angus Restoration
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#17 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
In this case I believe the odds favor an electrical problem, however, my old pick up truck exhibited similar symptoms as a result of debris clogging the in-tank fuel pick up screen. The particles would migrate toward the woven "sock" when the engine was running and slowly restrict the fuel flow until the engine stopped. The debris would fall away from the sock when the suction stopped and the engine would restart. Repeat 15-20 minutes later.
Eric
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#18 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Certainly Eric's idea is worth pursuing as the fuel tank sump filter can be overwhelmed with debris once the car is moving and gets churned up. Remove the tank filter and see what comes out. Alternatively drive the car until it stops, leave the ignition on and pull the fuel pipe off the filter and check fuel spews out. Obviously worth having a second pair of hands to switch off the ignition on command! Other thing is to make sure you have the correct fuel cap with a breather hole. When car stops, jump out and remove the fuel cap - there may be an in-rush of air - and try starting the car. Process of elimination.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red
Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#19 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
Have just experienced the same symptoms. Car conks out after 10 miles or so, fiddle around under the bonnet and heh Ho it starts again. Decided it wasn't electrics so dropped the fuel tank sump to find it clogged with flaked paint. Worked out this had come from the tank nozzle when the car was restored. There was also no gauze filter on the bottom of the pick up pipe so what was happening was the flakes clogged the pick up pipe. With the ignition switched off the flakes would drop down to bottom of the sump before being agitated again upon start up. Took the pump out and found that too was full of gunge. Filter fitted and all now appears well.
The second time this happened I was v lucky as would have been well and truly clobbered in a radar trap - ground to a halt alongside the police car!
NickJ
Series1 FHC
The second time this happened I was v lucky as would have been well and truly clobbered in a radar trap - ground to a halt alongside the police car!
NickJ
Series1 FHC
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |
#20 Re: 1961 3.8 OTS hot start woes on newly restored car.
[quote="PeterCrespin" I love your writing Michel. It makes me think of good coffee, fabulous croissants and the smell of Gitanes or Disque Bleu. Fuel arriving well (not sickly) and the remaining carbs taking the engine on (like soldiers helping a wounded comrade) are lovely expressions.[/quote]
I too love the way foreigners use the English language. It is so much more creative than that of native English speakers, who tend to speak in cliches.
I had a Swiss piano teacher once who described a hedge as a 'living wall'. And her toilet brush 'went senile' when the bristles fell out.
I too love the way foreigners use the English language. It is so much more creative than that of native English speakers, who tend to speak in cliches.
I had a Swiss piano teacher once who described a hedge as a 'living wall'. And her toilet brush 'went senile' when the bristles fell out.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD
Link: | |
BBcode: | |
HTML: | |
Hide post links |