Bonnet: dished lip around front lights ?

[Durango2k]

I have recently noticed that S1 bonnets pictured in this forum, like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11187

feature a dished lip around the outer edge. My bonnet does not have that recess.

Sailing in unknown waters - is the lip an earlier feature and my '66 2+2 simply does not have it, or has someone cut it of ?

Or is this - I can't tell it from the pictures- only present when you fit the light bowls inside the bonnet ? I have a very good set that was inside the car but was never fitted.

Carsten

[Series1 Stu]

Hi Carsten

I'm not sure whether I understand your question. Are you talking about the lip around the headlamp apertures? If so, then yes they are for mounting the seal for the headlamp covers.

Regards

[Durango2k]

Hi,

Yes, the main 3 parts (centre, wing, wing) look dished on the lamp perimeter.

Here are 2 pics of mine:






I' ll take better ones. But something is not right there I believe.

But why should someone cut that lip of ? For what reason ? Maybe he just flattened it out ? Will check later for sure.

I mean I can repair it by welding a strip underneath and so on- but lots of work of course. New skills to learn.

At least the outer chrome and the glass will guide my way.

Carsten

[Mich7920]

Hi Carsten,

You'll find what you want here.
Scroll down.

http://www.monocoque-metalworks.com/main/e-type-panels/

Mich

[Durango2k]

Thanks for the tip.

They do sell conversion kits - but my bonnet is (I think) not a later one. The S1 motif bar fits which leaves us to either S1 or S1.5, as S2 had a bigger mouth.

The car came with lamp covers and glasses and I did put them on loosely and they did fit (10 yrs ago), so my current guess is that someone flattened or remooved the recess, heaven knows why.

Carsten

[paulsco]

Hi Carsten,

Yes on the Series One the lip is part of the wing and centre panel:

Picture 8728 by paul scott, on Flickr

Yours may be a Series 1.5; they had the same size mouth as the earlier cars, but open headlights.

Scroll down this link:

http://www.monocoque-metalworks.com/mai ... onversion/

You should be able to tell from the cut around the aparture if the lip has been cut off. I did read somewhere that the factory cut some earlier bonnets during the progression to Series Two's, but if yours is an original 66 bonnet they have definately been cut off; maybe an early PO wanted to modify it to the later style.
Paul

[Durango2k]

Hi Paul,

Yes I thought about S1.5 as well - but on an 1.5 the glasses and the surround from an S1 - they came with the car- would not fit.

I'll have to change the clutch on our Smart tomorrow - so I'll be in the shed and take pics.

Strange, somehow. Something is telling a story here....

Oh and I found front-right the short joint below the lamp hole was open, on the other side there was a spot-weld and tin, so the gap was tinned/and closed.

Carsten

[Durango2k]

Today I took some pictures. It seems what I have is an S1.5 bonnet, because I found a sentence on the Mono Metalworks page:

"Note the Series 1.5 headlamp openings that do not have the stepped edge",

and they describe there S1.5 to S1 conversion and this just IS what I have here.

There you go.

This, btw, means finally the bonnet is not original to the chassis, because the tub is / was a March 1966 tub, and would not have come with an S1.5 bonnet.

Lucky me all the exoensive nose stuff was there like oem triplex glasses and the surrounds. Not sure which kind of cowls are there (if they differ which I don't know).

So the openings are roughly the same which is why the S1 surrounds do just fit, but the edge is not there. The Mono Metalworks kit is just about 1cm (from the pictures), so not much.

The new rubber seems to be way too small (came from a rubber kit 7 yrs ago), the ones I took of do fit somehow, but are perished.

The cowls do fit somehow- but they have a sharp edge, I mean they are not affixed by screw anywhere around the lip ? No idea. Are they just held there by the 3 screws on the rear surround ?

Have a look what I have.












Now, questions:

- how are the cowls affixed ?

- how deep is the lip on the edge: say 3 mm ?

I now plan to contact Mono Metalworks, and maybe buy a conversion kit, though that looks quiete costly (to me poor old guy).

The ebay advert in 2007 said "this is an easy restoration" - oh yes, surely, very easy.

Carsten

[Julian.P]

Hi Carsten, I have just bought a set of conversion flanges and PETG lenses from Chuck, they are expensive that's because they are hand made, first impression they look very good. He's a good guy to deal with.
Good luck Julian.

[paulsco]

Hi Carsten,

I'm not sure I quite understand your question, but if you look at my earlier photo, you can see the holes in the edge, which have captive nuts under them. the rim is held on with Philips (pozidriv) set screws.

Picture 8744 by paul scott, on Flickr

Mine are factory and they vary in depth from about 4.5mm to 2.5mm; they are about 11mm wide.

Your rubber ring looks original; they stretch around the glass and sit in the recess. They are not easy to fit!

By the cowls, do you mean the semicircular panel under the glass? that is held on at the rear by three bolts through the panel that the headlight bolts to.

Paul

[Durango2k]

Hi Paul,

As I found, it's not an S1 bonnet which I have. It's an S1.5 bonnet, but it came with the S1 exterior parts like the chrome surround, glass, rubber.

Because the dimensions of the lamp-cutouts are quiete similar between S1 and S1.5, I became confused and thought that I had an S1 bonnet were some guy had hacksawed the lipped edges off !

Then it needed some searching till I found the answer on the MM website- it's an S1.5 bonnet with the "wrong" externals.

(In fact it's that I have been betrayed. I bought the car as an easy-to-restore S1 2+2 which is what I have been looking for for a few years, but what I got was a rust wreck with a broken engine, an almost unsaveable tub, and an S1.5 bonnet on 5 different tyres. I gave 10.000 USD for it, in 2007, and never got a penny back, but the rise in market value calmed me a lot, it is still "worth" it anyway. And we're not here for the money).


Yet unknown is wether the inner bowls are S1 or S1.5, so I have to find out more on those. Funny they are only bolted on with 3 bolts, I would image they may be a bit loose at the tip ?

I asked Chuck from MM, lets see what he says. Sadly the conversion flanges alone are 385 USD from him, plus freight plus taxes minus ex ratio (1:1.20 roughly), so these 4 metal bits are -sadly- not cheap, and out of range for now- we're still recovering from our water-in-the-house-desaster. I do understand they are hand - made so worth the money, but still it's an expensive piece of kit.

Plus I may need the inner bowls (if mine are S 1.5), and mayb the rear quarter panels behind them with the holes for the lights as well. I do have a good set of quarter panels, but no idea how they differ (if they do), and wether they can be made-to-fit or need swapping.

Then, I do have a set of black cowls for the lamps, with a dished flat edge- will those fit ? Will they accept the Euro style lamps ? They came with sealed beam units.

Lots of questions, and being E-Type specific, not cheap.

It may well be that Pete's old red wing he gave me with the tub about 7 yrs ago may provide a bit of relief- I thought last night that maybe I could mirror the lip part for the other side, and fabricate the lip part myself from sheet metal. But it would not be easy, stretching and bending curved shapes is not, so maybe I have to wait for some cash to at least buy the lipped parts.

The local guy I can ask about metal wizzardry sadly is in hospital for kidney stones now, so that has to wait.

Hopefully Chuck will answer all of the above- I am sure he knows - and then we'll see.

I even thought about selling the complete bonnet, but then try to find a restorable S1 bonnet these days. I am happy to have one at least, so if you include travel + transport, it will be the best option to convert / make-fit mine. If I get 5 grand for mine but pay 12 grand for a new one, of course it's new but somehow a whole family car or a 4-week holiday in Australia is in between them, so thats not an option.

What might be an idea is tot try and find a crumpled or rusted bonnet and have someone cut me those parts out an inch away from the edges and I'd butt-weld them in, but finding that....is not easy.

Carsten

[Series1 Stu]

Good grief, Carsten. If it wasn't for bad luck you'd have no luck at all.

I think the series 1.5 headlamps sit higher than the series 1 by about 1.5 inches. Demanded by the USA Federal requirement changes, I think. The series 2 headlamps sit even higher, I believe.

That being the case, the headlamp mounting diaphragms will be different, as will the sugar scoops.

I did have a lot of additional bonnet parts left over from my bonnet rebuild. I'll have a look to see what I might have and post some pictures.

Regards

[Series1 Stu]

Just had a rummage through my old bits and and found these.

Somehow I have 2 spare headlamp diaphragms, both left hand side and one of which is unused although a little rusty.

I also have a pair of rusty but solid sugar scoops plus an extra left hand one, which is also unused but in need of a little TLC.

There's a left hand chrome trim, which is in reasonable condition too.

Everything is series 1.

I've just tried to upload an image in the hope it might help you to decide what you have but it won't upload for some reason. Very frustrating.

Regards

[Durango2k]

Hi Stuart,

Here it is:




In my car, the lamps did come mounted, but faired-in. They were not proud of the bonnet. I'll dig out what I can find later, or better, take new pictures of the parts tonight.

At a glance, the diaphragm part looks familiar, not much space on top of the lamp.

And maybe, when I found it, I'll upload sellers description of the car, and what it really was in the end.

With the knowledge of now about 8 yrs in the car, it was a lot - many points were very very different from the advert. Almost any, in fact.

Carsten

[Durango2k]

Here are my pics:



















Carsten

[Durango2k]

Tonight I got a mail from Chuck from Mono Metalworks. He said I should send him pictures of all the parts which I of course did, and he'd reply with what I have and what I may need to complete my car to 100% S1 spec.

So, lets see what he says- in the meantime have a look at my pics above, if someone can say which part goes where, thst would be very nice.

Kind regards,

Carsten

[paulsco]

Hi Carsten,

I would think making the headlight glass recesses would be relativly easy if you have a shrinker stretcher machine.

http://www.frost.co.uk/shrinker-stretch ... -jaws.html

And some angle iron.

Fold a length of 20g steel along its length into a Z (with right angle sides) using the angle iron and shrink the inside and streach the outside until you get the right shape.

Use the headlight glass and the rubber seal as a guide for the shape.

You could even make it up in sections if that was easier.

Paul

[Durango2k]

Hi Paul,

I thought about that. Maybe tomorrow I may have a chance to meet a museum metal pro restorer, his last car was a Porsche 356, and they do pre-war Mercedes as well. Maybe they can help, but if not, I may buy Chuck's parts, it depends.

I have never done that, so I am not sure wether I get that project right. If it would be that easy....

How for example would I assure the correct placement of the curved parts inside the lamp holes I have in my car ? Too low, too high ?

The curvature may be achieveable using the glasses as guide- that would be a way, surely,

Carsten

[paulsco]

Hi Carsten,

Didn’t you say you had Pete's old red wing?
This would give you the measurement from the seam at the bottom and the shape for that wing; you could mirror it for the other wing.
Are you unable to use this wing?
You would only have to make three parts instead of four?

Paul

[Durango2k]

Hi Paul,

Exactly - as you say, Pete's wing is here and will be used and can be a template.

I may try to borrow a shrinker-stretcher....and try it myself.

No fear ! Never give up !

Carsten

(Or did he say "we will never surrender" ?)