Cam Cover sealing...again

Technical advice Q&A
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Series1 Stu
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#21 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Series1 Stu » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:58 pm

Viton O rings will give you a great seal but they need to sit in a groove otherwise they will be squashed and then split therefore rendering them useless.

The soft copper washers are there to take up discrepancies in the cam cover casting and provide a seal but there are limits to what they can achieve. New copper washers will probably do the job or you could try annealing the ones you've got.

As Geoff said, Dowty washers are probably the best option (I think they're used on V12 engines) although they clearly don't look quite right. They have the O ring and the requisite groove built in so are no hassle to use.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

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mgcjag
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#22 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by mgcjag » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:13 pm

Just put a thin layer of sealer under the washer.......Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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chrisfell
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#23 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by chrisfell » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:55 pm

I don’t do any of the above. Copper washers, chrome nuts, nothing tightened more than screwdriver tight, never have any leaks anywhere around the cam covers. Every five years or so I might anneal the copper washers, but that’s all.

Engine leaks oil from everywhere else though, just not the cam covers.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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andrewh
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#24 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by andrewh » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:48 am

Are you sure all the other leaks are not actually from the cam covers. My analysis of oil engines is a lot of originates from the cam covers or nuts!
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

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chrisfell
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#25 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by chrisfell » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:47 pm

andrewh wrote:Are you sure all the other leaks are not actually from the cam covers. My analysis of oil engines is a lot of originates from the cam covers or nuts!
Nope. Oil pisses out from the breather in the timing cover, the rear of the head, both ends of the crank, but nothing from the cam covers. Top of the engine is clear and clean and always highly polished.
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E-by'eck
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#26 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by E-by'eck » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:23 am

thanks for the feedback on Viton O-rings everyone...another idea consigned to the bin!!. Just look forward to oil pissing everywhere when I eventually start the damned thing up. Most amusing comments Chris.
Graham
E type renovation .... 1962 3.8 Ser1 RHD DHC
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#27 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by E-by'eck » Mon May 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Raising this old chestnut again after finding Ebay item 282968230208. Viton washers from a strange source which are an ideal fit under the copper washer and great value. Bought mine a few months ago and now there is a good offer on them. You will need 26 and I think it is 153 you need but please check sizing with him. Many will say "not needed" but I had two sets of cam covers with cracks in them needing costly aluminium welding so think these washers reduce that risk. Make your own mind up!
Graham
E type renovation .... 1962 3.8 Ser1 RHD DHC
If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill

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Kalle Borg
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#28 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Kalle Borg » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:55 am

Smear the new cam cover gasket with oil or grease and leave it to soak for some hours. A DRY paper gasket will not do the job properly.

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#29 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by rfs1957 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:14 am

Whilst browsing for washers the other day, it occurred to me to look out for some Dowty-type 1/4" seals, which for those that don't know are a metallic washer with a rubber sealing insert that grips the bolt as well as sealing the interface.

They have often been referred to here as being suitable for cam-covers.

Without wanting to stir up the debate about sealing, has anyone actually ever found/bought this type of washer in a 1/4" size ?

I ask because the three seal/washer suppliers I have consulted say that they don't exist that small.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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#30 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Gfhug » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:18 am

Rory I have used these with great success on my S2 cam covers. Will check how many spares I have and if enough send you some. They came from Barnwell:
https://www.barnwell.co.uk/products/bonded-seals/

Edited to add: They are steel not copper, but against the cam covers look fine IMHO

Regards

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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Whitact
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#31 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Whitact » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:58 am

Adrian Turner
S3 OTS & FHC
S1 FHC
XK140 FHC

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#32 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:04 pm

Cheap as chips in alloy, although I do run a 1/4" drill bit through them. 1/4" or 5/16" from Home Depot Everbilt brand about $2 for bag of four.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#33 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by 288gto » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:25 pm

Careful not to confuse 1/4 BSP with 1/4 UNF. The first is about 11.8mm the second 6.3mm.
I know you can get 6mm dowty washers quite easily but whether they would seal correctly on a 1/4 unf thread/component I don't know.

Geoff, were yours 1/4" imperial ones or 6mm ?

Simon
Simon
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#34 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Gfhug » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:20 pm

Simon, I must admit I can’t recall, but they fit very nicely and do a fine job of stopping leaks around the dome nuts
If Rory doesn’t want the spares guess who can have them!

Geoff
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#35 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by rfs1957 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:47 am

Too late, Simon, my name is now on them.
Indeed any number of 1/4 BSP available, but not much use to us.
Will contact Barnwell's, it would be nice to find a reliable source of correct 1/4" rather than 6mm, and then publish the details here for everyone.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
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malcolm
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#36 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by malcolm » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:27 am

I'm obviously missing something - SNG sell copper 1/4inch washers for the dome nuts at 16p, which seem to work fine on my covers?
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
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#37 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by rfs1957 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:50 am

Am sure that with good original covers, never overtightened, clamping surfaces good and perpendicular to stud axes, never re-welded etc - the original Cu washers are just fine. When all the aforementioned conditions are not met they need help, and the Dowty principle is more tolerant.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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malcolm
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#38 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by malcolm » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:22 am

Ah, understand! Thanks
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
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Whitact
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#39 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by Whitact » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:11 am

Rory,
From the table here:
http://www.potterassoc.com/pdf/bonded_s ... _chart.pdf
quarter inch (Imperial not BSP) are reference 004 which are listed at 17p each and as available from stock here:
https://www.easternseals.co.uk/shop/bonded-seals/
Cheers
Adrian Turner
S3 OTS & FHC
S1 FHC
XK140 FHC

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#40 Re: Cam Cover sealing...again

Post by rfs1957 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:36 am

Thanks for that research, Adrian, I had in fact already tried EasternSeals and this was their reply.

Good Morning Rory
Thank you very much for your enquiry – Unfortunately on this occasion, we are unable to offer.
Kind regards,

Steph
Stephanie Sanderson
Sales
E: stephanie.sanderson@easternseals.co.uk
W: www.easternseals.co.uk
T: +44 (0) 1670 840529


I might dig deeper and find out why.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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