Ride Height

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skiday
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#1 Ride Height

Post by skiday » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:30 pm

Hi Chaps
Someone who ought to know about such things as he is an E-type dealer, and who drove my car, (which is for sale) suggested it might be a bit high at the front. No one has ever suggested that to me before, and I've always thought it's stance looks good to me, but what is the correct ride height at the front? The highest part of the front wing arch is 62cm (24 3/8") off the ground. If that were considered high, surely it is only possible to lower it by one 'tooth' of the splined end of the torsion bar? How much would the front be lowered if the bar were rotated by one spline?

Or could it be that the back is a little lower than it should be? The rear arch is 54cm (21 1/4") off the ground. The sill is about 2cm lower at the rear.

Cheers

Andrew
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Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#2 Re: Ride Height

Post by mgcjag » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:47 pm

Hi Andrew...you do not measure the ride hight at the wheel arches....these could have been altered over the years by repairs etc......the correct ride heights/ model and how to measure are detailed in the service manual....there is one in the knowledge base......the torsion bars work as a vernier with different number of splines at each end so micro adjustment is possible....... Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#3 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 pm

I must apologise for cluttering up the forum with a question the was a/ badly asked and b/ unnecessary as it has all been asked before and all covered in the manual which I had not gone through. I can now see that the measurement is to be found on page J15 and the height which should be 8 3/4" is just over 10" on mine, so clearly yes, my car is too high at the front. Having just read the adjustment section, the manual does not suggest how much height will be lost by rotating by one spline at either end. Should I start with the front or the rear of the torsion bar, and from experience (if it's possible to say), how much change will I see with one spline of rotation?
Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#4 Re: Ride Height

Post by mgcjag » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:56 am

Hi Andrew.....j15 is the wrong page for your car details......you need to look at the suplement section J.X.s.1/2 it will give the correct setting link measurements for your model and how to calculate ride height......dont forget that tyre size and pressure will also make a difference........to set the ride height you need to follow the procedure in the manual page J15 useing the setting link measurements for your car........one spline at one end will give a large difference but as i said you dont just move one end..... the torsion bar is designed to give vernier adjustment by haveing more splines at one end than at the other...i think its 24/25 ..so you need to fit the setting link ....then try the torsion bar continually turning so that the front and rear slot in......its much easier than it sounds...Steve..ps if you neec help PM my with a contact number and i will call you
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#5 Re: Ride Height

Post by 44DHR » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:45 am

Andrew,
You are not cluttering up the forum as we all learn from each other - provided the information is correct !
It would be hard to give accurate dimensions in any spline change as it depends on which end you are changing and how much the torsion bars are worn as they do change over time and a new bar would differ to an older bar. You don’t necessarily turn one end only as this would give a large adjustment. The rear has 25 splines and the front 24 splines so they should be both removed and refitted to act as its own vernier. Ensure you mark the original setting in the adjuster lever at the rear and on the bar to maintain a reference. It is a matter of adjust and refit - then drive the car after each adjustment as the bars do settle after a while. A case of a little at a time and certainly don’t change their sides to reverse them as they only work one way.
As regards the standing height figure you quoted of 8 3/4 inch, if you are also quoting page J15 of the Jaguar Service Manual, I understand this only refers to the 3.8 litre models and the 4.2 litre and 2+2 cars like yours are each measured differently and require a calculation from 2 different points.
As you know, I like to run my cars lower than standard and I have done this on my E Type as a preference. I have my Torsion Bar Setting gauge here, but these are easy to make up from a piece of bar with the holes drilled as per the service manual.
We are both on the Island, so if you want to chat it through further, just give me a call.
Regards,
Dave

P.S. Sorry for the duplication of info with Steve’s post which came in before mine as I was searching around in the workshop for my gauge, during which time Steve posted.
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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chrisfell
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#6 Re: Ride Height

Post by chrisfell » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:53 am

Andrew, Dont do it. Just dont. You have a LWB car which, if the ride height is set at standard, will give you problems with sleeping policemen and other so called traffic calming devices. And car ferries. Given where you are.......
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#7 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:50 pm

Thanks for the responses, most interestingly the last - "Don't do it". Unfortunately the work is in hand. I didn't feel qualified to tackle this and I don't have a 2 post lift anyway, so I entrusted the jopb to our local classic Jag specialist St Helens Garage. It was booked in for two hours today so I said that would be at least four then. It's been in all day so far and they've managed one side so far, which is not their fault, it's just that the torsion bar would not come out without taking the whoole assembly down and putting it into the press. I had not removed the end when I restored the car so it all went back just as it had come off, which I had assumed was correct. This is as far as this section was stripped:

Image

I did find the correct page in the manual for the measurements.

I have to admit, I hadn't really thought about ground clearance (which is strange seeing as I managed to pull the exhaust apart on a ferry ramp when I bought the car), I just wanted it to be right. How many times have you started a job to find yourself wishing you had just let it lie?
Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#8 Re: Ride Height

Post by chrisfell » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:32 pm

“I managed to pull the exhaust apart on a ferry ramp when I bought the car”

Yup! Been there, done that. Middle of France when I pulled mine to bits. Temporary repair involved hangers made from a quad bike drive belt and lots of large washers. It held for the next two MOTs!
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#9 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Hey Chris. Even though your icon photo is quite small you can see from it how much higher my car is than yours when you look at this photo;


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Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#10 Re: Ride Height

Post by bitsobrits » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:08 am

Andrew, I notice in the photo of your control arm and torsion bar that the small bolt that holds the torsion bar in place is still fitted. Unless that bolt is removed the torsion bar will be impossible to remove.
Steve
'65 S1 4.2 FHC

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#11 Re: Ride Height

Post by mgcjag » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 am

Well spotted Steve...correct
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#12 Re: Ride Height

Post by chrisfell » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:03 am

Andrew, Quite correct, that photo of my car shows it is much lower than yours.

Image

Since then it has ridden higher........

Image

and slightly less high.....

Image

I'm happy with the stance and the handling of the ride height in the last image, which is the car's current situation.

My car, despite being a late S1, wears S2 parts at the front, including torsion bars uprights and brakes. This means using the setting link dimensions in the factory and Haynes manuals gives the wrong ride height (hence the elevated height in the second image.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#13 Re: Ride Height

Post by H7OB » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:47 pm

Hi Andrew,

Mine also seems to sit closer to Chris's. Loosely speaking, both F & R rims look closer to lining up with the top of the wheel arch in side view.

BTW Chris, just wondering if you need to adjust the ride height of the model E, looks a tad high at the front and low at the rear, based on the above! :bigrin:


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'68 Series 1.5 2+2

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#14 Re: Ride Height

Post by chrisfell » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:28 pm

"BTW Chris, just wondering if you need to adjust the ride height of the model E, looks a tad high at the front and low at the rear, based on the above! :bigrin:"

Unfortuately, I crashed it.......


Image

Since then the ride height has been all wrong.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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#15 Re: Ride Height

Post by 44DHR » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:50 pm

Andrew,
I hope the garage is giving you a good rate if they took a whole day to remove one side.
Should be a couple of hours tops. Did you ask them why they did not just undo the locking bolt from the front mounting of the torsion bar ?
The torsion bar splines are bigger than the diameter of the bar, so with the front locking bolt removed, one good tap on the front of the bar knocks it through the rear adjuster lever. With the rear adjuster lever now off the splines and slid onto the bar, the bar passes through the hole in the reaction plate where the rear adjuster is bolted, to take it out of the front wishbone.
Regards,
Dave
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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#16 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:57 pm

I have only just realised, seeing bigger now, that Chris' icon pic is a model in front of his car. I thought it was two pics Photoshoped together for some reason :doh:

I've just got the car back and the bill was 5 hours = £300. I was not too surprised because, as I say, not only might the torsion bars not have come out since they went in 50 years ago, but I had painted over the bar and ends as one unit with POR15. They are a classic Jaguar specialist so I'm not going to sugest they took longer that any other garage would have or lacked the knowledge to do everything right.

Below is the results which sow it to be still 8mm high on R/H and 18mm high on L/H


Image

It would seem hopeful to me that they would match to the millimetre on both sides, but I'm sure you will have an opinion, but surely the car needs to settle, and any car might be found to very a little from side to side when parked.

The fact that it remains just a shade high doesn't bother me now given what Chris said about ground clearance.

Here is how it looks now;


Image

Now this has been done I have to consider the heavy steering. Alec of St Helen's told me that the steering wheel shaft is stiff on its own and the rack is stiff to. He says there is adjustment in the rack and reckons the whole job might be another 5 hours. I shall remove it myself and see what I can see.
Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#17 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:31 pm

I was just thinking about the 10mm difference. If the rear suspension were lop sided that would surely affect the front of a car with the front perfectly set up. I have measured and it is 5mm lower on the R/H at the rear.
I wonder how much discrepancies at the front affect the rear and vice-versa.
Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#18 Re: Ride Height

Post by mgcjag » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:22 pm

Hi Andrew.....there is no reason why the settings should not be correct....as i mentioned previously the torsion bars have vernier adjustment.....also your measurements A are different which it center of wheel to ground so is altered by tyres/ pressure......Steve.
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#19 Re: Ride Height

Post by skiday » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:32 pm

I did check the pressures and they are both 32 lb/sq", but I had to replace one wheel due to bad chrome and the tube required design is no longer available and the R/H is now a tubeless design and this might explain the difference of measurement A

However;

I just lifted the bonnet to have a look at the steering and I am seething. Look what the garage have done to my, previously immaculate heater box. It would seem to make an excellent tool tray!! :cussing:
I expected to see a little colatoral damage to the paint on the torsion bars and mounts, but this???


Image

And here it was on the 19th of September;


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Andrew Day. Former owner of S1A 4.2 2+2. Current cars; Aston Martin DBS 1968, Ferrari F355 & Fiat Coupe 20vt. Flag of choice; EU

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#20 Re: Ride Height

Post by mgcjag » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:47 pm

So are you running different tyres on either side of the front....not a good start to set your ride height.....all in your workshop dosent sound like they are upto working on E types.... Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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