Diff ratios

Technical advice Q&A

64etype
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:07 pm
Location: Texas, USA
United States of America

#41 Re: Diff ratios

Post by 64etype » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:19 pm

I noticed the same thing, Hugo. The continuity of the thread is lost with the soft deletion. By the way, so far I haven't seen anything that establishes where and how the E-type differential internals where designed. Most likely a collaboration between U.S. and British engineers within the Spicer/Dana umbrella. Certainly the IRS is 100% Jaguar.

It is clear that the design of the gears themselves are from the Dana 44. The parts differences list in the link I provided gives a clue as to where (whomever) made changes in concert with the newly designed case/casting/carrier. I too doubt the remark in the link that differentials were shipped from the U.S., but I do recall that assertion from back when I was a kid....a very long time ago. Fascinating stuff, nonetheless, for a gearhead. All the "back in the day" contributions are much appreciated.
Eric

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


288gto
Posts: 1417
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:59 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Russia

#42 Re: Diff ratios

Post by 288gto » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:22 pm

From #37

Image

In 1956 The Birfield Group was formed as a holding company that included the subsidiaries Hardy Spicer and Salisbury Transmissions (in the poster) along with other automotive related companies.
It his highly likely that designs and components were shared.
Hardy Spicer had already set up a forging plant on Birch Road Birmingham in 1938 which became another subsidiary of the Birfield Group, Forging and Presswork (Birmingham) Ltd.

I think it's probably safe to say the E type diffs were made in Birmingham.

More than happy for anyone to soft delete or hard delete anything I've posted to make this thread coherent. :lol:


Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


johnetype
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Great Britain

#43 Re: Diff ratios

Post by johnetype » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:55 pm

I might suggest that it would take more than a few deletions to make this thread coherent but at least if Hugo's original questions (two or three) were answered then the thread could draw to a close :wow:
Hugo wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:51 pm
Two questions - was there a 2.88 diff fitted as standard to the E Type? And can a 2.88 XJ6 (or was it XJS?) diff be fitted to an E Type? And if not why not? Ok that's three I know ;)
Non US & Canada Series 2 2+2 automatic cars were fitted with a 2.88 diff.

A 2.88 diff from a XJ6 or and XJS can be fitted to an E type.

There are many ratios and diffs that can be fitted to an E type including the popular 3.07 and the 3.058 from a Series 3 XJ6 but not all will have Powr-Lok (LSD) fitted and not all can have Powr-Lok retro fitted. It's a complex much discussed topic so the search function will help you find more detail.
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

PeterCrespin
Posts: 4561
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Contact:
United States of America

#44 Re: Diff ratios

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:37 am

AFAIK all V12s of any type had an LSD and 2.88 was eventually almost universal, even on XJ6s to comply with 'CAFE' regulations (corporate average fuel economy).
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#45 Re: Diff ratios

Post by Series1 Stu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:23 am

Is it feasible to just change the crown wheel and pinion and therefore keep your original diff and casing etc.?
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Nickleback
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:49 pm
Location: West Sussex
Great Britain

#46 Re: Diff ratios

Post by Nickleback » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:32 am

Yes it is possible, I got mine converted (via a transmission specialist) three months ago on my S2 XKE which had a 3.54 LSD and had it converted to a 3.07 & retained the original LSD and casings with it. Basically, it is the crown wheel & pinion that needs changing providing that you have access to new parts required only and not an complete exchange diff which a lot of suppliers recommend.
Last edited by Nickleback on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike,
1970 S2 FHC 2R28165

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


288gto
Posts: 1417
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:59 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Russia

#47 Re: Diff ratios

Post by 288gto » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:22 am

Hugo,

Potteries Jaguar Spares in Stoke on Trent always have diffs available from Jags they break or Simply Performance Ltd a bit nearer to you in Beare Green.
Ward Engineering in Colchester swapped my crown wheel and pinion to a 3.07.
Alan Swanson is also worth a call as he sometimes has second hand crown wheel and pinions as well as offering a superb refurbishment service. He will also be able to advise you regarding ratios.
Just be careful if you buy a crown wheel and pinion on its own as there are some differences between the early diffs and your later S2 diff hence Mike's comment above.

Simon
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


JagWaugh
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:56 pm
Location: Eglisau, Switzerland
Switzerland

#48 Re: Diff ratios

Post by JagWaugh » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:39 am

Series1 Stu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:23 am
Is it feasible to just change the crown wheel and pinion and therefore keep your original diff and casing etc.?
Yes, the only parts which differ from one ratio to another are the crown wheel and pinion.

It isn't really a that difficult to do yourself, given a certain level of experience with that kind of mechanism, and with the correct parts.

If you find a local shop which does off-road vehicles you'll probably find that they do this kind of work quite regularly.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

PeterCrespin
Posts: 4561
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Contact:
United States of America

#49 Re: Diff ratios

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:55 am

Series1 Stu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:23 am
Is it feasible to just change the crown wheel and pinion and therefore keep your original diff and casing etc.?
Yes and no. The LSD case comes in three flavours, with the ring gear flange moving further outboard as the pinion gets bigger. The thickness of the ring gear varies within limits, to match the pinion, so one version of LSD carrier can do more than one ratio, but it means, for example, that you can't just bung a 2.88 R & P into a 3.54 diff.

Roughly-speaking, there is one carrier for ratios 2.88 and below, one for ratios between 3.07 and 3.77 and one for ratios of 4.10 and above. Don't quote me on the precise break points but that's the basic set-up.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

ralphr1780
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:29 pm
Belgium

#50 Re: Diff ratios

Post by ralphr1780 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:16 pm

Confirming what Pete Crespin indicated, I have swapped the ring and pinion from a normal 3.07 diff out of a mk2 into the 3.54 lsd of my S2.
Simple and straightforward job.
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


64etype
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:07 pm
Location: Texas, USA
United States of America

#51 Re: Diff ratios

Post by 64etype » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:33 pm

JagWaugh wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:39 am
Series1 Stu wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:23 am
Is it feasible to just change the crown wheel and pinion and therefore keep your original diff and casing etc.?
Yes, the only parts which differ from one ratio to another are the crown wheel and pinion.

It isn't really a that difficult to do yourself, given a certain level of experience with that kind of mechanism, and with the correct parts.

If you find a local shop which does off-road vehicles you'll probably find that they do this kind of work quite regularly.

The link provided in post #29 identifies the part numbers that have to be changed if you retrofit the ring and pinion gears from a Dana 44. The easiest and least expensive approach is to purchase a basic rebuild kit for a Jaguar differential, and one for a Dana 44. Then select the needed items from each kit. Also, a Dana pinion has a different spline count, so a special Jaguar style drive flange has to be sourced. (An alternative is to modify the propeller shaft). In the U.S. the popular 3.07 ratio is virtually impossible to find from a used Jaguar differential, so this is a common solution.
Eric

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#52 Re: Diff ratios

Post by Series1 Stu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Thanks guys. I thought that would be the answer but I only seem to read here about swapping diffs to change the final drive ratio. Nobody seems to discuss changing the crown wheel and pinion so I thought I'd ask.

My car came with a 3.77 diff of uncertain origin and so I swapped it for a period correct E Type diff from Alan Swanson. If anyone wants a 3.77 give me a shout although I don't expect there will be any takers.

Regards

PS When I write diff here, I mean final drive assembly
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

ralphr1780
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:29 pm
Belgium

#53 Re: Diff ratios

Post by ralphr1780 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:45 pm

3.77? I thought 3.54 pas the highest. :shrug:
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#54 Re: Diff ratios

Post by Series1 Stu » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:04 pm

I think 3.54 was the highest (lowest) for an E Type. I'm not sure where it came from but I'm pretty sure it is 3.77. It was definitely in my IRS assembly when I got the car and is painted red.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

AussieEtype
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:59 am
Location: Canberra, Australia
Australia

#55 Re: Diff ratios

Post by AussieEtype » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:36 pm

The Salsbury is in lots of different vehicles and as mentioned many of the internal components are interchangeable with Dana diff. My Landrover has a 5.57:1 sals diff ratio and the crown wheel and pinion would probably fit inside my S3 etype diff - so there are other options - Dana diffs have an even larger range of crown an pinions and side gear options but it all requires research and testing - better staying with one of the standard e type diff options.

Garry
1971 Series 3 E-type OTS
1976 Series 2 XJ 12 Coupe

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

abowie
Posts: 3879
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:
Australia

#56 Re: Diff ratios

Post by abowie » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:38 am

garrycol wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:36 pm
a 5.57:1 sals diff ratio and the crown wheel and pinion would probably fit inside my S3 etype diff

Garry
Wow. I could lay rubber in all 4 gears and still not break the speed limit.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Topic author
Hugo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:16 am
Location: Horsham West Sussex
Contact:
Great Britain

#57 Re: Diff ratios

Post by Hugo » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:37 am

288gto wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:22 am
Hugo,
Potteries Jaguar Spares in Stoke on Trent always have diffs available from Jags they break or Simply Performance Ltd a bit nearer to you in Beare Green. ....
Simon
Wow - Beare Green? That's only five miles from me, and I didn't even know they were there? I think this is one job I might farm out - I've never liked doing diffs, for some reason.
Right now I've just washed up in Florida & gone down with a severe case of Man-Flu :-( so the Jag will be on the back burner for a bit unfortunately. Engine & gearbox all done except for some smooth cam-covers which I have here in Florida waiting for me to polish them - or I might try painting them with this magic chrome paint from Alsa.
Hugo Miller - rebuilding an imported Series II OTS & converting to RHD

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic