Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Technical advice Q&A

chuffer
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#21 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by chuffer » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:24 pm

rfs1957 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:25 pm
Re clutch-plates, puzzled by the "23-spline" referred to somewhere here ? Erreur de frappe or correct
Correct for UK-sourced T5s - Cosworths, TVRs, etc. Got my clutch plate from Watjag, box from Elite. Bootiful.
S1 FHC 3.8, XK Convertible

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PeterCrespin
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#22 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by PeterCrespin » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:22 am

"For similar hydraulic ratios, i.e. unchanged master - slave, a lighter pedal equals less effort on the thrust bearing and less wear on the crank thrust washer.

Reductio ad Absurdam is - as usual - the best guide : a clutch with no springs equals no effort at the pedal."


Hmm, at the risk of 'doing a Hugo' , let me try it another way...

Let's say a given clutch requires X force on the release bearing to lift the pressure plate off the friction plate. Whether you change the master/slave ratio, swap to cable, or mess with the release fork length or clutch pedal matters nothing, in so far as that same clutch will still need X force to release. Sure, the amount of operator legwork can be varied - and with it the forces acting on the clutch pedal pad or pivot, but if the clutch hasn't changed, so neither has the value of X at the release bearing and therefore the force acting on the thrust washer at main bearing #4. It may feel lighter or heavier but if the clutch spring is unchanged so is the axial pressure and washer wear.

I can't remember who said what but yes, I'm sure we're all agreed if you change the pressure plate all bets are off. Oh, er, that's where we came in isn't it? Sorry . "I'll get me coat.."
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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Series1 Stu
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#23 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by Series1 Stu » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:24 pm

Very well put. :drinkingcheers:
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
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rfs1957
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#24 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by rfs1957 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:40 pm

Hey Peter Crespin, are you still outside with your coat ? Please come back inside.

Starting back on 4-wheels, after an intensive spring/summer of 2-wheeled spannering and Isle of Man, now looking again at the clutch business.

Everyone referrs to T5 and Tremec as having a 23-spline clutch, whereas the Cangialosi Medatronics is referred to as 1-1/16" 10 spline Ford-Type.

US availability is cited as being this :

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_merc ... 39-v8.html

but I'm guessing that this reference, hidden down the list that I found when searching for Chuffer's AP Racing clutch here at CP2346 :

https://www.apracing.com/product_detail ... tions.aspx

CP2346-70 / Ø1.06" x 10T. Steel backed.

is also the one I need ? 9.5" is 240mm, 1-1/16" is 1.0625", and 10T means ............. 10 spline ?

But do I need a "Racing Clutch" anyway ?!

At £193 ?

PS - Now found standard version for £50, sounds more like it.
Last edited by rfs1957 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
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(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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PeterCrespin
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#25 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:45 am

Une petite faute de frappe, peut-être, entre 2436/2346? Néamoins...

If AP are competitive on price and performance, we can assume there’s genuine extra capability for the extra dosh, but I doubt you need 350 lb/ft. If you want to do needs-based shopping, then the important number is whatever it gives as torque capacity for the plain vanilla friction plates. As for splines, I only have enough fingers and thumbs to count up to ten, so I don’t venture beyond the Jag spline setup.

If Paul C’s E-type kit has a 10-spline input, but uses Ford dimensions rather than Jag, I’d be surprised/worried.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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rfs1957
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#26 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by rfs1957 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:44 am

Yes, 2346, well spotted - now corrected.

Paul doesn't seem worried, 10-spline and 1.06" it is, and it would take a braver man than me to query his choice.

HOWEVER next issue is that neither SNGB nor Manners have the genuine 9.5" cover in stock ........ reference HE4562. 6-8 week delay. And I dont want to buy a pattern.

Anyone any bright ideas ?
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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PeterCrespin
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#27 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:22 pm

I probably lost track slightly, and by 'worried' I didn't mean mechanically but reputationally, because 'stuff happens'.

He supplies the correct Ford disc with his boxes, I'm sure. But anyone not buying his plate, or who later tries to fit a Jaguar friction plate to Paul's Ford spline is going to notice it's a very sloppy fit, without being so out of whack that it is obviously completely the wrong part.

If his were the larger size and therefore Jag's plate didn't fit, owners/shop mechanics would know the Jag part was wrong. The way it is now, they might think the plate is ok because it fits correctly on the old four-speed, but the Mediatronics gearbox is 'wrong' because it fits, but poorly. Everything he supplies fits, but you'd be amazed what punters get up to and then say on forums :P
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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rfs1957
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#28 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by rfs1957 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:40 am

Yes, hadn't thought of that. Never tried to see if it's possible.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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christopher storey
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#29 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by christopher storey » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:54 am

Rory : where obtaining the driven plate has been difficult, I have had very satisfactory service from Bonding and Reline at Thurmaston in Leicester, who will put new linings on your plate at very modest cost and with a quick turnround. I posted mine off one day and had it back within about 4 days

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PeterCrespin
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#30 Re: Clutch choices, and Release Bearing and Fork Woes

Post by PeterCrespin » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:16 am

rfs1957 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:40 am
Never tried to see if it's possible.
ul
I tried and it is.

I fitted a Jag plate on a Mustang T5 World Class and an Elite T5. Sloppy on both, to the point you or I would be seriously unimpressed but a punter might not notice and the setup would probably work bar some chatter at low idle. The plate fitted snug and smooth on two Jag gearboxes. I doubt there is some third version of the ten spline shaft that Paul uses?
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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