Door internal water shield

Technical advice Q&A

Topic author
davidrl
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:59 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Great Britain

#1 Door internal water shield

Post by davidrl » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:27 am

I've read through previous posts on this subject but none quite give the information I require. It seems that, like some other cars I've previously worked on, the polythene sheet water shield is actually inside the door itself and not affixed to the door directly under the door card. Having said that, even when there is an internal water shield, I always affix a membrane to the door immediately behind the door card to afford additional protection.

Does anyone know whether there is definitely a sheet polythene shield inside the door and if so, how it is fixed?

Incidentally - the window is still in the door and I'd prefer not to have to remove it

David
Jaguars owned
1973 Jaguar E type Roadster
1990 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS
1991 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

rswaffie
Posts: 947
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:56 am
Location: Lincolnshire
Great Britain

#2 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by rswaffie » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:44 am

Hi
I can’t comment on other models, but on my series 1 there are no internal polythene water shields. There are two steel ‘water shields’ that are riveted in place, parts of which are inside the door. The polythene membrane is then glued/mastic’d to the door panel before fitting the door card trim and hardware. I would have thought it pretty difficult to get a membrane on the inside of the door carcass.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Now running-in my diy nut ‘n’ bolt restoration. :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
davidrl
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:59 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Great Britain

#3 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by davidrl » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:17 pm

Thank you Richard for your reply and excellent accompanying photographs.

When I re-trimmed my car (S3 roadster), I did indeed fit membranes to the doors in much the same way as yours and I was happy with this until I read a post on this forum in which a member stated that the polythene sheet should be inside the door. Maybe this was referring to an S2 or S3 but unfortunately I can't now find that post. I have restored several makes of car and have come across various internal water shields, including those attached to the bottom of the window glass which rise and fall with the window.

I can get a sheet of polythene inside the door and pinch it under the horizontal part of the window frame affixed to the top of the door. The polythene can then be held against the inside of the door by pinching it between the door inner skin and the two mountings for the window regulator assembly. There is a slight problem caused by the door handle activating bar support bracket (BD34820) which prevents me pulling the sheet right to the bottom but I should be able to remove this bracket (when I work out how to do it!) to get the polythene behind it.

David
Jaguars owned
1973 Jaguar E type Roadster
1990 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS
1991 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


johnetype
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Great Britain

#4 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by johnetype » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:04 pm

My research leads me to believe there was more than one way a water barrier was fitted to the doors during the life of the car.

On my Series 2 when I stripped down what I believe to be the original doors there were the remains of a polythene sheet fitted to the outside of the inner door panel, i.e. inside the door.

Likewise if you can get access to a copy of Colin Ford's Practical Classics E type restoration book on a Series 1.5 car it has photos of fitting a sheet in the same way as my Series 2 was pinching it in place by the window regulator.

I have a concern that Richard's beautifully executed polythene sheet on the inside of the inner door panel does more harm than good as it traps water between the sheet and the inner door panel encouraging rust and as it's perforated by the door card spring fixings doesn't protect the door card from water either. I've varnished the inside of my door cards to try and add some extra resilience.

I'd be interested to hear what Angus does on his restorations.......
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


1954Etype
Moderator
Posts: 2441
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:32 pm
Contact:
Great Britain

#5 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by 1954Etype » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:10 pm

My understanding.... originally a tacky (partially sticky) polythene sheet was stuck to the door shell in between the door card and door. Later on, it was discovered that it worked better by sticking the sheet inside the door. As part of our experimentation (ie trying to get a door drain to work as designed) we are sticking a sheet on the inside of the door on my car. Currently we use a plastic sheet stuck in between the door card and door shell.

It doesn’t work that well 🙁
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Bob.
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: North Gloucestershire
Great Britain

#6 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by Bob. » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:43 am

From the S3 ROM

Image

Image
Bob
'71 S3

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Rustyred
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:22 am
Location: Sth Coast Aust
Australia

#7 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by Rustyred » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:25 pm

The Best method is as per Richards Photo, on how he attached his Poly sheet, the addition of extra poly attached by tape (like image example) and allowed to hang freely inside the door frame itself is advisable to allow for water to drain back into the door frame itself. This also allows air to circulate within the poly sheet for ventilation on the inner door frame.

Image
Restoring 73 Series 3 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
davidrl
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:59 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Great Britain

#8 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by davidrl » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:01 pm

Thanks for the further responses, which answer my question perfectly.

I now feel a bit dumb because I do have the WS manual from which Rob kindly copied the diagram and text but because it was obvious to me how the regulator came out when I removed it, I never referred to that page and if I had, I doubt that I would have read the refitting instructions anyway. ( Note to self - read the manual!!)

Having now read the manual (I'm learning already!), it seems that one does drill out the pop rivets for the bracket holding the support bracket (BD34820).

Thanks again for the assistance.

David
Jaguars owned
1973 Jaguar E type Roadster
1990 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS
1991 TWR Jaguar XJ-RS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


alfazagato
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:28 pm
Location: London
Great Britain

#9 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by alfazagato » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:01 am

I was under the impression that the plastic sheet was a vapour barrier to protect the door card rather than a water proofing membrane.
Stuart
Series 1.5 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


tonyabacus
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:02 am
Great Britain

#10 Re: Door internal water shield

Post by tonyabacus » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:28 pm

I refer to the top picture posted by Richard, where if I understand correctly he is showing metal plates rivetted in place. This means any future work inside the door shell will require these plates to be drilled out to gain access.

On many cars over the years I have used a similar method, but have used a heavy gauge polythene instead of metal. Also approximately one inch down from the top edge of the plastic I have made the plastic approx. one inch wider on each side of the apertures. I then use a strong double sided tape to stick the plastic over the openings, so that the additional side pieces can be tucked inside the aperture. This means the plastic now being larger than the openings, all the water that gets down inside cannot penetrate through to the door card.

This then enables me at any future date to access the workings inside the door by either lifting the plastic out the way, or by removing it easily. But for belt and braces I then cover the whole of the door in much the same way as Richard's picture, but again use double sided tape, making sure I put enough around the various openings so the plastic is held tight around each opening. That is to say around the edge of each depression not in the depression. This makes for a neat job rather then the black mastic which is messy to clean up if ever you remove the plastic cover.
Tony

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic