General Handling S2

[Herzeg]

Hello Everyone

I am throwing this one out for any thoughts people might have.

When I got my car it was a left hooker. During the conversion to RHD, courtesy of Angus, I had polybushes put in, all the suspension rebuilt, rebuilt diff from 3.54 to 3.07, brakes rebuilt, new rear shocks and everything spannered up. Since then the front shocks have also been replaced with Boge's and Angus also managed to sort a deal to sell the 205/70 Vredesteins and replace with almost new wheels shod with Blockley 185's. Everything is now as near to original factory fit as I think is possible.

My problem is that I have absolutely no confidence in the handling. My daily driver is a 530d M Sport BMW, which has unbelieveable performance and handling for a car of it's bulk. I don't push it anywhere near it's limits and still love it after 99,500 miles of driving. The Jag though frightens me. In a straight line it's great, but it breaks away very easily and I lost it once on a roundabout at 30mph. I have no real confidence in pushing it around corners fast.

I'm not being a wimp, I have had it break away more than once under little load. Am I missing something here? Angus has done the set up, so I know it's been done right, but I would be interested in other peoples views?

John

[abowie]

It's a 60 year old car design wearing replica 60 year old tyres. And it has no air bags etc. I never push any of my E Types on the road at all.

Probably the best thing to do would be to take it out on a track and get a feel for where the let go point is. Knowing the limits and how it behaves past them might make you more comfortable and it will certainly make you more safe.

[Tom W]

Did you have the suspension geometry and ride height set up to the factory specs, and if so, which ones. There were several tweaks to this over the years. I suspect the changes during early production were improvements, or due to the change from cross-ply to radial tyres. Later on, into S2 production I expect the ride height changes are to meet US headlamp height regulations, and aren’t to the benefit of the car.

Personally, I don’t see the point of poly bushes. If you go for updated ones, you remove some of the compliance the suspension is supposed to have. If you fit ones of standard shore hardness, you might as well fit standard bushes. I replaced all the original bushes on my car soon after getting it as I thought they were worn out. Turns out it was only the outer visible bits that were cracked. The bit inside was still fine. It took ages to do the job, and I couldn’t tell a difference when I’d finished as the old ones weren’t worn.

Granted, I have a Range Rover as my daily driver benchmark, but I find the feedback in the E-type far superior. The limit comes earlier (or I’m going faster), but I find it’s far more communicative and balanced right up to and beyond the limit. I feel modern cars (though I’ve not tried BMW) give little or no feedback about where the limit is, but when you finally exceed it they wash out in safe understeer. On a sweeping bend, you can balance the E-type on the throttle.

[Gfhug]

John, that's very disappointing to feel you're not at ease with the E. I know Angus will have set everything up correctly. One comment that came from a review of tyres is that the Blockley's were the worst in the wet. But there are those on here who really like them. But could you arrange to drive another S2 to compare? Even trying a set of different tyres could be worth a try.

I'd be happy to let you try my 185 Vredesteins on your car. PM me if of interest.
I changed from 205 Michelins to the 185 Vreds and have been very happy with them.

Cheers

Geoff

[PeterCrespin]

Hello Everyone

I am throwing this one out for any thoughts people might have.

My problem is that I have absolutely no confidence in the handling. My daily driver is a 530d M Sport BMW, which has unbelieveable performance and handling...... In a straight line it's great, but it breaks away very easily and I lost it once on a roundabout at 30mph. I have no real confidence in pushing it around corners fast.

I'm not being a wimp, I have had it break away more than once under little load. Am I missing something here? ..,I would be interested in other peoples views?

How old are you?
What other classics have you driven?
What did you drive before the Bimmer?

Your M Sport BMW has levels of grip and handling that exceed a contemporary Grand Prix car from the early sixties. You probably regard quick driving as storming into a roundabout at high speed, slamming on the anchors and throwing the BMW hard right and leaning on the M Sport rims with tyres scrabbling for grip as you floor it at the apex and rocket out at your chosen exit. You’d love the F-Type. That’s what people do nowadays and anything that doesn't conform is found lacking. Even luxury cars corner on rails today but ride more harshly than they used to.

A standard E-type should ‘float’ at the limit because you get so much warning and breakaway is so predictable. This makes it easier to hold in the zone than a wide-wheel low-profile tyre snd stiff suspension car that could run rings around it but snaps away when it lets go at higher cornering speed.

The performance was tip-top in its day but today your diesel or a hot hatch could blow it away in certain respects. That’s how life goes.

[chrisfell]

I drive my E almost as much as my RAV4 and more than I drive the S2000. Each car is different. I wouldn’t dream of throwing the E into a bend like the S2000, nor of overloading it like I would the RAV4. And off the track I would never seek the limits of grip in any of these cars. As I never go onto the track, that is also never.

I recalibrate my driving to suit each vehicle. I’ll follow Crispin into the roundabout in the Honda, but not the other two.

[politeperson]

A standard S1/S2 in good condition should certainly inspire confidence.

It should provide tons more feedback to the driver before it gets near to the limits. Far more so than many modern cars.

I drive a new 911 every day and have no worries whatsoever with the E type. It feels great, better in some ways than the modern.

You are welcome to try mine anytime. It is on standard bushes with softish Boge shocks and has been set up properly (toe, camber, castor).

The front ride height does make all the difference.

Measure between the floor and the lower wishbone fulcrum.

8-9 inches feels good. You can then attend to the other wheel adjustments above.

10 inches+ feels decidedly skittery. The car feels too "perched", you lose compliance in the torsion bars and the track is too narrow. The car literally feels like it wants to chuck you off the road.

Less than 8 inches will give wheel rubbing issues.

If you post a picture of the side profile of you car, you can usually tell if it is wrong. There should be 2.5 inch of wheel rubber showing between the top of the wire wheel and the top on the wing as below.

[Heuer]

I suspect the Blockley's are the problem. My OTS has Michelin XVS's and I throw it around without any worries, probably more so than I do with the "I am waiting to kill you" 911. My FHC has Dunlop Sports and it certaiunly does not inspire the confidence the OTS does. All down to tyre choice. Nothing wrong with the Blockley's for normal driving but if you want to play at the limit then you need something like the XVS's or Cinurato's.

On the other hand I can go through a set of rear XVS's in 10,000 miles because they are soft, sticky and encourage fast cornering.

[christopher storey]

I too suspect the Blockleys. However, the first thing is , what tyre pressures are you running , as these can affect handling quite drastically, and if they are too high on an E you will get skittishness. Also, has your speedo been recalibrated for the axle change, or is your 30 mph nearer 35 mph in reality. If so you are putting nearly 40% more energy into the tyres than you think you are. I also have to say that 30 mph through a roundabout is quite a high speed anyway, and if you boot it away whilst still in the turn you are asking a huge amount of the tyres

[malcolm]

I have a series 2 on standard set up, standard shocks, 185 vredesteins with polybushes being the only change.
I have done 2 track days on it now, a third coming up soon, and it holds on really well. I'm not overly slow, so I know I'm pushing it, and it's fine. I'm more circumspect on the roads, but even then the only time I feel a little uncertain is in the wet
I should add that of course it's nowhere near my modern Jag XFS in handling, but I didn't expect it to be.

[John ball]

Are your Blockley’s the radial version or the very square section cross ply’s. I don’t understand how it can break away at 30mph on a roundabout unless you have a lot of lock and you are really booting it !!!
I have radial Blockley’s on both my 120FHC and my Healey 100. Both are very secure. I have two friends with a 120 and 140 and they both never complain about bad handling. My 120 has been on the track at Goodwood and I let a well known Jaguar racer have a go. He said they were no better or worse than the Vredsteins they used in their race series. The Blockley’s ride well and look right. The Pirelli radials do look good but I am told they do not have handling to match all the others.

[1954Etype]

John, why don’t we arrange to get your car over and we can put some Dunlop tyres on for you to try. We can also check your settings. (You must owe me lunch by now)

[MarkRado]

You really cant compare a modern BMW with a classic EType.
But I found tyre pressure to be of importance when it comes to breaking away in tight corners. I ve got skinny Avon turbosteels on orig 5 rims. Anything above 2,2 bars (31 psi) makes the tail swing.

[Herzeg]

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Firstly let me put it in context, I am not a boy racer! I drive quickly but when I talk about 30mph this is on a sizeable roundabout where I am not attempting to drift it

I was out in the car yesterday and, even allowing for the fact it's a fifty year old car with no aero add-ons, I just feel it's a bit airy-fairy. I would love to try the offers to drive others, and for you to try mine. Once this current problem ends I will definately be in touch. I'll look at the ride height as well.

John

[Mich7920]

Hi
The E-Types are very flexible in suspension compared to your BMW. The brakes also have a very strongly accentuated distribution at the front.
When you brake hard, the "mass transfer" causes the front to plunge and the rear to lift.
If at this moment you give a big push on the accelerator, the rear slides and this is normal.
You will fix things a little bit by changing the tires, pressure etc... but the phenomenon will always be present.
If you can't control the rear wheel slide as Jacky steward knew how to do in his time, drive your car differently.
The E-Type is not vicious, it warns before sliding and it is quite easy to drive fast...on a track
It's a shame not to enjoy your car, so my advice is to do some training sessions on a track with an instructor driver who will be able to advise you.

[288gto]

Have a word with Darren, (dal2.0litrefrogeye) on here, he seems to have a similar problem making his car go in a straight line.

[Herzeg]

Have a word with Darren, (dal2.0litrefrogeye) on here, he seems to have a similar problem making his car go in a straight line.