[edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Technical advice Q&A
User avatar

Topic author
paydase
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:11 am
Location: Belgium
Belgium

#1 [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by paydase » Sun May 31, 2020 11:26 pm

Hi all,

To perform an oil service on my 3.8 FHC, I sourced a standard EBC 9658 Jaguar oil filter that should fit on the oil filter housing that was already installed on my car when I purchased i:
P1180908.jpg
P1180908.jpg (184.57 KiB) Viewed 1685 times
To my surprise, I discovered that the Jaguar oil filter could not be installed.
The old oil filter is of a smaller size than the Jaguar one, and more worrying, the diameter of the threading to attach the filter to the housing is of a smaller size than the one needed by the Jaguar filter.
Apparently the current (smaller) oil filter was installed during the last service.
P1180904.jpg
P1180904.jpg (159.6 KiB) Viewed 1685 times
P1180905.jpg
P1180905.jpg (233.06 KiB) Viewed 1685 times
I am concerned by the possibly smaller oil flow permitted by the previous smaller oil filter.

I have now two options:
- replace the present oil filter housing with a conversion kit as the one sold by SNG; or
- source an oil filter with a smaller threaded hole that may be screwed on the current housing (my preferred option).

What is your advice:
Are there good enough (high flow) oil filters with a smaller threaded hole that may fit the 3.8 engine (if so, which ones)?
If not, and if better to replace the current filter housing, is this a simple job (the access looks to me quite uneasy and the bolts may be seized...)?
Last edited by paydase on Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Serge
1964 (3.8) S1 FHC 889725

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

abowie
Posts: 2953
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:
Australia

#2 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by abowie » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:32 am

The filter in different.

ANT: SP1507 MAHLE: OC23 MEHR: n/a
FRAM: PH2857A MANN: W916/1 UFI: 2310200
RYCO Z89a
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Joes66
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:16 am
Great Britain

#3 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by Joes66 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:44 am

If it was me I would either put the standard filter back or replace your kit with a kit that will take the jaguar filter
Filters are carefully selected by the manufacturer of engines to give the best performance to any given engine they produce
For instance
Years ago I was fitting rover V8 engines into various things and the rover V8 is notorious for having low and poor low pressure
Especially as they get old
I set an engine up in a test bed and bought all the after market filters I could find and tested them all
Low and behold the genuine rover filter performed the best
One of the filters was 10 psi overall lower than the rover one!!
All tests were made with the engine hot at idle and under load
It thought me a lesson about filters
Joe
1969 series 2 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 5658
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#4 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by mgcjag » Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:56 am

Hi Serge.....now that you have noticed this you wont be happy untill you have replaced the houseing or conversion........the outside thread although larger on the Jag 9658 filter dosnt mean that the hole through the center isnt the same on both........Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#5 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by Series1 Stu » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:40 pm

Joes66 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:44 am
Low and behold the genuine rover filter performed the best
One of the filters was 10 psi overall lower than the rover one!!
Interesting and unsurprising findings really. The motor manufacturers generally have much bigger research budgets and resources to optimise these things than the aftermarket suppliers do.

I'd like to know whether you just compared oil pressures or whether you included flow rate, measuring flow through the filter and bypass flow, which is more important than pressure on it's own.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
'94 X300 XJR basket case

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Joes66
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:16 am
Great Britain

#6 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by Joes66 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:54 am

No stuart I dident check the flow
But I was mainly concerned with oil pressure at the time because those old rover V8 engines suffer from low oil pressure
Having said that I did consider working out a way of checking the flow but decieded that as the OE filter had and held the best over all oil pressure it probably had the best flow as well
Or more importantly the correct flow that rover thought was best for the engine
And seeing as rover designed it for this engine knowing that after some use this engine developed oil pressure difficulties
As I remember this type of filter used by the rover V8 has a pressure valve built into the filter and this would change the oil pressure if it wasent calibrated correctly by whoever made the filter
I guess there can be many factors to a filter giving different results
I was using castrol oil which I changed and re did the test with a new set of filters
I used a cheaper after market oil,cant remember the brand,and this also effected the hot oil pressure but mainly at tick over
All in all i can say is that using OE filters and recommended at the time of construction engine oil made a difference
Joe
1969 series 2 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#7 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by Series1 Stu » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:34 am

I agree, the manufacturer's solution is usually the best.

I am a little concerned about your filter housing because it looks a bit amateurish. I would be inclined to revert to the standard filter and housing, although you will lose the convenience of the spin on filter.

As we have both said, the manufacturer's solution is usually the best.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
'94 X300 XJR basket case

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Topic author
paydase
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:11 am
Location: Belgium
Belgium

#8 Re: Correct oil filter on conversion kit

Post by paydase » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:33 am

I have considered more in depth the options of a suited spin on oil filter or of retrofitting the OEM filter system.

First, I am a bit lost with all the offers of spin on filters, many brands, many models in the brands, and no easy comparaison of the specs, especially concerning the flow, return valve or not, capacity and filtration.
I understand that my current system is of the 3/4"-16 thread type while the Jaguar spin on conversion kit is of the 1"-12 thread type to host the EBC 9658 system.

The filter that was mounted on my system is a Crosland 529/1. I hope it had specs adapted to the 3.8 engine, especially concerning flow, pressure, filtration and return valve.
Actually I did not notice any specific issue regarding oil pressure, the numbers shown on the dashboard gauge being in the standard range during driving and idle, engine hot or cold, with 20W50 oil.

Andrew, your message was a bit cryptic, can you confirm that the filters you recommend are of the 3/4"-16 type and are they all as good and well fit for the XK engine or are there better choices (any preference)?

Stuart, I agree that my glued/bolted filter housing looks "amateurish".
Regarding the possibility of retrofitting the OEM system, it seems that NOS or remade parts are very difficult to source, see e.g.:
https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#/UK ... mbly/21231
And used complete assemblies rare and quite expensive, e.g.:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... SwzOleoD7D

Fortunately, it seems that the main housing on my engine is original or original/compatible with the correct ductings as it is a Tecalemit FA2746, so that I should only source the filter canister, bolt and smaller pieces (spring, washers).
There are a few NOS canister housings currently for sale on ebay and the other parts may be sourced from the usuals:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... SwPCtdA9Xr

I have also checked that although access to my current housing in the engine bay is acrobatic, the retrofitting job may be doable, the main bolt being apparently a 1 1/4" that I could move when using a 32 wrench pipe (I didn't have an imperial wrench pipe but 1 1/4" is 31.75 mm, so very close to 32).
So that retroffiting becomes a serious option!

I'll dig further.
Thx again for your contributions and help.
Serge
1964 (3.8) S1 FHC 889725

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Heuer
Administrator
Posts: 13399
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:29 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire
Great Britain

#9 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Heuer » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:41 pm

I converted both my cars back to the stock filter system. It works well and is no more messy to change providing you follow the Service Manual instructions (hint: remove the drain plug in the filter housing). There was an article written in one of the Jaguar magazines about the efficiency of the spin on filters but I can't lay my hands on it. The stock paper filter has more flow capacity than the spin on and is the preferred option if you are using 20w-50 oil.

If you are using Mobil 1 or other synthetic then either filter system will be OK.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

Add your E-Type to our World Map: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Gfhug
Posts: 2146
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: Near Andover, Hampshire,in D.O. Blighty
Great Britain

#10 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Gfhug » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 pm

Ken Jenkins of the JEC has commented about poor flow through the spin on filters and his advice was not to use the standard EBC9658 (?) filter. Barratts should be able to help you, though some may say there’s nothing wrong with their standard filter :roll:

I’ve used the Fram one Andrew Bowie lists above

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Joes66
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:16 am
Great Britain

#11 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Joes66 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:05 am

SNG supply the OEM jaguar filter with their spin on kit
1969 series 2 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 5658
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#12 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:09 am

Interesting info from Coolcat on conversion and filters https://www.coolcatcorp.com/Merchant5/m ... y_Code=Oil
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#13 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Series1 Stu » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:27 am

mgcjag wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:09 am
Interesting info from Coolcat on conversion and filters
It's not really clear what they are telling us other than claiming that their conversion is better than 2 other suppliers' because they use the Jaguar standard filter. Whilst I agree that the bigger filter is PROBABLY better overall there is no evidence presented here to justify that their conversion package is superior to any of the others.

Separating marketing hyperbole from science is something most people find difficult to do, especially when they want to believe what they are being told.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
'94 X300 XJR basket case

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 5658
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#14 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:54 am

Hi Stuart..i was refering to the actual information they give on the filters....As you say any referance to theirs being the best is just marketing....
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Series1 Stu
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Shropshire
Great Britain

#15 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Series1 Stu » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:15 pm

Ok but don't take it too seriously because 1" UNF has 14 tpi, not 12 as they say.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

'62 FHC - Work In (slow) Progress
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
'94 X300 XJR basket case

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 5658
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#16 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by mgcjag » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:40 pm

The Jag filter EBC 96858 is 1in 12
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Topic author
paydase
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:11 am
Location: Belgium
Belgium

#17 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by paydase » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:50 am

I have finally decided to retrofit, convinced by your arguments about efficiency of the OEM filter in terms of flow and filtration.
It seems to me that dismantling the current assembly and reassembling all the OEM spring/washers/bolt/canister in a place of such a difficult access will not be easy and was not that well designed by Jaguar...

For those also interested to retrofit and still having the OEM filter housing, there are presently a few NOS items still available here (apparently very difficult to find, the small items like spring and washers being sold by SNGB):

The canister:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... SwPCtdA9Xr
The 3.8 bolt (it has a UNC thread):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... GTR=1#shId
The 4.2 bolt (UNF thread):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... 0010.m2109
Serge
1964 (3.8) S1 FHC 889725

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Heuer
Administrator
Posts: 13399
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:29 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire
Great Britain

#18 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Heuer » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:55 am

Make sure you get new felt washers and rubbers as per the SPC. I also trued the edge of the canister by rubbing/rotating it on a piece of fine wet and dry sandpaper. New gaskets and copper washers obviously.

Remove the air silencer/filter to get easy access - fitting the filter is not that difficult after you have done it once.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

Add your E-Type to our World Map: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

BRB
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 2:50 pm
Location: Geneva
Netherlands

#19 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by BRB » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:59 pm

Hi all,
Sorry for my ignorance, but I only a novice in E-type works. Presently, I’am also attempting to convert my S1 3.8 from a spin on adaptor to the OEM canister. I managed to buy a NOS canister from ebay and bought the canister bolt, seals and so on from one of the usuals. But when I started mounting the parts, I got the impression that I might be missing some seals on the filter housing. As you can see, the central oil passage has no seal:
Image
When I install the disk that will receive the oil filter cartridge, it looks like this:
Image
Shouldn’t there be a seal when I add the disk? Also, this disk is free floating like this. Nothing is shown about this in the assembly diagrams I managed to dig up. Any suggestions how this should be installed and how the sealing between the different parts is achieved?

Another issue I observed is that the seal on the oil filter cartridge leaves a small gap between this disk and the filter housing:

Image
This cannot seal properly like this. Am I assembling things in the wrong way?

Finally, the filter housing drain screw doesn’t have a seal either (or it was lost when I emptied the filter before removal). In the diagram a seal is indicated (8752), but I do not know where to source it and the usuals indicate it’s no longer available. Can I use a copper washer, or should it be something else?

Thank you in advance for your feedback.
Jan
1963 S1 FHC 889606

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Joes66
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:16 am
Great Britain

#20 Re: [edited] Spin on oil filter vs retrofitting OEM filter housing on Series 1

Post by Joes66 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:52 pm

There is no seal in the middle
The filter relies on the spring at the other end to push it up onto the other disc
There is obviously an o ring flat type seal to seal the main body of the oil filter housing
Very standard paper element oil filter of its day
Joe
1969 series 2 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic