Exhaust Fitting

Technical advice Q&A

Topic author
Ian Cooke
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Hampshire
Great Britain

#1 Exhaust Fitting

Post by Ian Cooke » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:21 am

Hi All

I've bitten the bullet and ordered a new Bell Exhaust which I plan to fit myself.

Any hints and tips for someone who is relatively inexperienced but enjoys doing what I can on my car.

I don't have a lift so will get the car up on ramps at the front and axle stands at the rear.

Should I use exhaust paste on the joints or is copper slip a better option?

I'm not replacing the manifolds and am a bit concerned about accessing and removing the nuts from the studs.

I ordered the exhaust from SNG along with their standard fitting kit, will this give me everything I need?

Answers to these points and an other general advice would be much appreciated.

Ian
Ian Cooke
1969 S2 FHC in Old English White

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Tom W
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Location: UK
Great Britain

#2 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Tom W » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:41 am

If your car has any of the original exhaust heat shields in place, avoid disturbing then. They could well contain asbestos.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

rfs1957
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: Montpellier, France
France

#3 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by rfs1957 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:52 pm

Hi Ian, not sure if apposite for a later car, but I remember that a couple of the eight 9/16 AF nuts on the manifold-to-pipe junctions require, on mine, a very long extension bar in order to give optimum access from underneath.

I eventually bought (a 3/8" square drive) one specifically for the job, as joining two shorter ones together wasn't the answer - the junction occuring at precisely the place where the space was tightest, from memory against a frame tube.

Might be worth rehearsing your tools before you attack ?
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

MSM
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:46 pm
Location: South Bucks, UK
Great Britain

#4 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by MSM » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:13 pm

Hi Ian

I think exhaust paste would be better than copper slip. Which of Barratts fitting kits have you chosen? The more expensive one with band clamps is much better than the one with mild steel ring clamps. The mild steel clamps deform the pipes and make removal or repositioning difficult.

The Barratt kit does not seem to include all the tail pipe hanger parts, the rubber mount is there but not the metalwork - have a look at the pictures on the website.
Mike

S2 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

BRM
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:00 am
Location: Essex
Great Britain

#5 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by BRM » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:01 pm

Hi Ian,
I also fitted a Bell system from SNGB and did it with just the back end on axle stands and working in a space of about 18 inches between the car and the garage wall so you should be ok !

I found it fitted very well although I needed to cut a couple of inches off the back of the pipes that go under the diff to get the tail pipes to go on nicely.

Once you remove the heat shield from the frames next to the manifold you can get to the nuts although it is a bit of a fiddle. As Rory says a couple of them can only be tackled from below with a long extension bar on a socket.

I don't know what the standard fitting kit contains but make sure you've got the two sealing rings that are clamped between the manifold and down pipes.
Brian

1969 S2 FHC 1R20267
1960 Austin Healey 3000

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

abowie
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:
Australia

#6 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by abowie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:48 am

I have fitted a number of the Bell systems. They are easy to fit. Sometimes you will need to trim up to 30mm or so off the rear end of the downpipes where they go into the mufflers.

The fitting kit should be comprehensive although you will need to reuse the bolts that hold the exhaust to the mounts.

Work from front to rear of the car.

The manifold studs can be difficult. Some nuts can be accessed from the engine bay with a short 9/16" spanner. Some can only be got at from below with a socket on a couple of extensions.

If you strip or break a stud bite the bullet and remove the manifold, fix all broken studs.

Be aware that you can easily crack a corner off the manifold trying to unscrew a rusted in one. You are better off cutting the stud off flush and drilling it out then retapping the thread. If the thread is stuffed Helicoil it. Alternatively you can buy oversized studs from XKs Unlimited, or adapt ones from other cars.

Don't mess with existing studs that have good threads. If you crack the cast iron manifold it can't be repaired.

When fitting the downpipes don't fully tighten them until you have assembled the whole exhaust. You will need some mobility in them to get them into the manifolds and to adjust them so they don't hit the engine frames.

I don't use either coppaslip or paste. If I do get a leak I can't fix by tightening the connector I use high temperature RTV silicone.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
Ian Cooke
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Hampshire
Great Britain

#7 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Ian Cooke » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:15 am

Many thanks to you all for your very helpful advice.

Tom, what looks to be the original lower downpipe heat shield is in place and I was thinking about replacing it as it looks a bit rough around the edges. Any advice on removing it safely? I was thinking about wettting it and wrapping in cling film before taking it out.

Thanks Rory, I think I'll invest in a very long extension bar!

Mike, I tried to buy the more expensive ss fitting kit but unfortunately SNG didnt have any in stock and weren't able to say when they would so I went for the cheaper mild steel kit. I was told that the only difference is the clamps which as you say are ring instead of band.

Brian, good to know that you managed to replace your exhaust in what sounds like even less space than I have to work in! I may try just lifting the back end of the car as I am a bit nervous about attempting to drive the front wheels up onto ramps.

Thanks Andrew. I had seen some of your previous posts regarding the Bell Exhausts and they certainly helped with my decision. Hopefully the downpipe will come away from the manifolds ok and your advice is much appreciated. If I have problems I may be back for some more advice!

I am still a bit unsure about the merits or otherwise of using exhaust paste. I guess that as with many things it's a matter of opinion and I did read somewhere that its good to use paste on the joints between the exhaust parts and copper slip on the rings between the manifolds and downpipes. I suppose that using silicone instead of paste means that the joint is easier to subsequently seperate if needs be?

Thanks again for all your advice and any more will be much appreciated.
Ian Cooke
1969 S2 FHC in Old English White

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Tom W
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Location: UK
Great Britain

#8 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Tom W » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:20 am

I would do some research into PPE before tackling any asbestos. I don’t know anything about removing it, except that it’s nasty stuff.

There should also be a heat shield between the frame rail and gearbox, above the front pipes before they snake into the centre silencers. There should also be one above the centre silencers, between the silencers and the floor pan, though you maybe don’t need to disturb either of these.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


dxke38
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:13 pm
Location: norfolk
Great Britain

#9 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by dxke38 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:39 am

Personally, I've always found it easier to fit the centre box's first and then fit the pipes fore and aft.
They can be heavy and you can support them with a trolley jack and piece of wood.
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Neil Duke
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:46 pm
Great Britain

#10 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Neil Duke » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:59 am

I spent 14 years in the exhaust business,so a few tips,some are repeats that others have posted.Get yourself a 3/8 drive 18" extension,& a wobbly 9/16 single hex socket.The downpipe nuts were brass,so shouldn't be seized,if they are,cut through the front pipes,& take the old exhaust off.If you have access to a heat source,like oxy/acetylene,heat up the downpipe nuts to a cherry red,they should come off easily.If the studs are knackered,heat the corner of the manifold,& use a stud remover.clean up all old threads with taps,& die nuts before assembly.Fit the downpipes,with new gaskets,nip them up,then yank the pipes around,to bed the gaskets,before finally tightening them.Try & use the band type clamps,they are less likely to ground out.
S3 Roadster Manual
07 Vanquish S
07 Vantage Roadster
74 Triumph Stag
66 Scimitar Coupe
He who dies with the most toys wins.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
Ian Cooke
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Hampshire
Great Britain

#11 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Ian Cooke » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:43 pm

Thanks Neil that's very helpful.

Any thoughts on the use of exhaust paste and / or copper slip?

Ian
Ian Cooke
1969 S2 FHC in Old English White

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Neil Duke
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:46 pm
Great Britain

#12 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Neil Duke » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:01 pm

Exhaust paste,but get the joint started before wiping a little round the inner pipe,& some in the slots.If you use too much,especially before putting the pipes together,it will harden,break off,& rattle around in the silencer.A real bugger to take the exhaust off,try & get it out,& start again.
S3 Roadster Manual
07 Vanquish S
07 Vantage Roadster
74 Triumph Stag
66 Scimitar Coupe
He who dies with the most toys wins.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
Ian Cooke
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Hampshire
Great Britain

#13 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Ian Cooke » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:37 pm

A quick update and some further questions if I may.

The old exhaust came apart and off the car surprisingly easily and all was going swimmingly until I tried to undo the nut on the last manifold stud which didn't want to budge. The others weren't at all tight which raises one of my questions - see below.

Anyway, in trying to remove the nut I managed to sheer off the stud but luckily there is still a reasonable amount still protruding from the manifold. So my plan now is to remove the manifold to make it easier to get at the sheared stud and try the double nut trick to remove and replace it. If it all goes horribly wrong then I may be forced to treat myself to a pair of the new shiny black SNG manifolds!

Whilst taking a look at the new exhaust I noticed that the sealing rings have a 'ridge' around the centre of the inside circumference and this stops the ring from seating properly on the downpipe. See photo

Image

So, my questions are as follows:

Do I need to grind the ridge off the sealing ring or will the ring compress onto to downpipe as I tighten the nuts?

How tight should the stud nuts be as I was surprised at how loose all bar one were?

Any tips for removing the broken stud. I don't have the tools to drill it out and am hoping that I can unscrew it.

When I come to put the manifold back on do I need anything other than a new gasket i.e. any sealant?

Thanks

Ian
Ian Cooke
1969 S2 FHC in Old English White

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 5643
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#14 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by mgcjag » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:52 pm

Hi Ian...rather than double nut the stud which will risk busting the corner or shearing the stud again try welding a nut to the stud..the heat could well break the rust sealing the stud in......or double nut and heat the stud could work......the sealing ring neads to go fully on.....try tapping/bang it on.....dont rely on the studs/nuts to pull it on....how tight?......just tighten hand tight.....but check again after a few runs...i assume they were brass nuts...Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
Ian Cooke
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Hampshire
Great Britain

#15 Re: Exhaust Fitting

Post by Ian Cooke » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:03 pm

Thanks Steve

I managed to get the stud out by heating the manifold and gently working the stud loose with a pair of molegrips while holding the manifold in a vice to help stop the corner breaking off.

Thanks for the advice on the rings, I protected them with a piece of wood and tapped them on. All ready for fitting tomorrow.

Ian
Ian Cooke
1969 S2 FHC in Old English White

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic