Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

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265bhp
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#1 Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:55 pm

Well..I was preparing for adjusting the valve gaps...as per my other thread tonight...but although all 4 bolts are out of the sprockets...to free up the camshafts..only 3 out of 4 washers are with them...I am totally fed up as I dropped one of the washers down inside the timing case....

This car restoration continues to be a drain on my strength...

However..with a beer not sitting looking at me I am trying to work out what my options are

Am I right in thinking the void behind the timing case connects down to the sump below...in which case if I am lucky..all I have to do is remove the sump...?..not easy as I remember when taking things apart...but better than stripping the engine apart...

Advice please

Many thanks
Jonathan
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by mgcjag » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:14 pm

Hi Jonathan.....get yourself a long flexi with a small magnet on the bottom.....and try some fishing....you may get lucky......the flexi i have has a magnet the size of 1/2p.....insulate the sides with tape so only the tip is magnetic......good luck....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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265bhp
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#3 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:23 pm

Hi Steve
I wish I could but I used stainless washers on the 4 bolts.... :roll:
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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288gto
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#4 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 288gto » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:18 pm

265bhp wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:55 pm

Am I right in thinking the void behind the timing case connects down to the sump below...in which case if I am lucky..all I have to do is remove the sump...?..not easy as I remember when taking things apart...but better than stripping the engine apart...

Advice please
Perhaps a borescope and a length of mig wire with a hook bent on the end. It could be resting on something before going into the sump, fallen into the sump and resting on the baffle plate or fallen all the way to the bottom of the sump. Worth trying to look inside. You can buy a borescope that plugs into a laptop relatively cheaply now and if nothing else it will come in useful for all sorts of things. I really feel for you Jonathan, restoring an E type is certainly a rollercoaster of emotions. Pic below that might help and shows lots of stuff it could possibly be resting on higher up.

Image
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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265bhp
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#5 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:28 pm

Hi Simon
Good suggestion...I will try...

After an hour of time passed I’m more philosophical....its a first world problem after all...

But you are right...hands on restoration is a real collection of emotions.....

All the best
Jonathan
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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lowact
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#6 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by lowact » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:14 am

Here is pic of the most valuable tool in my workshop. Goes on the end of the vacuum cleaner hose, relies on suction holding the dropped part while you carefully lift it out. Never failed me yet, except, don't accidently suck up anything flammable, vac cleaner explodes ...
Image
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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#7 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by rswaffie » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:21 am

If it’s of any use, I bought a Nacot wireless HD endoscope from Amazon £20. It connects wirelessly to my iPhone, has some hooks and other attachments and has been really useful.


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Richard

S1 3.8 FHC Opalescent Golden Sand with Tan Trim 889504
Now running-in my diy nut ‘n’ bolt restoration. :wrench: :hammer: :fingerscrossed:

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265bhp
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#8 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:52 am

Morning all
Just bought an WiFi type endoscope on Amazon.....am still going to get the gaps done this Friday then I can see if its a sump off job or not....
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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#9 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by abowie » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am

Nah don't worry. It's in the sump and it's not going anywhere.

If you really want to you can take off the sump and retrieve it. To be honest though, you can leave it and reconnect with it next time you rebuild the engine.

PS there shouldn't be washers under the setscrews C2310 that hold the camshafts anyway. Assuming that's what you've lost. So throw the other 3 in the bin.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#10 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 288gto » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am

abowie wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
Nah don't worry. It's in the sump and it's not going anywhere.
..... To be honest though, you can leave it and reconnect with it next time you rebuild the engine.
That would be like your surgeon telling you as you wake up, the operation went well but I might have dropped something in there. Not to worry I’ll get it next time we open you up. :lol: :wink:
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#11 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by mgcjag » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:36 am

If its on a chain/ sprocket is the big worry
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#12 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:18 pm

abowie wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
Nah don't worry. It's in the sump and it's not going anywhere.

If you really want to you can take off the sump and retrieve it. To be honest though, you can leave it and reconnect with it next time you rebuild the engine.

PS there shouldn't be washers under the setscrews C2310 that hold the camshafts anyway. Assuming that's what you've lost. So throw the other 3 in the bin.

:bigrin: ....now I am really hacked off...I shouldn’t have lost something that shouldn’t be there... :roll: ...ah well...life is a learning experience....
I need to know where the little blighter is...so if I cannot find it amongst the timing chains and sprockets, I will have to take the sump off of peace of mind....

Will report back....
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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#13 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by abowie » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:26 pm

Yeah rereading this in the sober light of day I was trying a bit hard to make you feel better.

Realistically though there's a big void down there and once it gets past the chains it'll sit happily in the sump forever.

So if you can't see it nestling between chain and sprocket with your borescope I personally wouldn't stress.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#14 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 pm

Hi Andrew
Appreciate the sentiment...I had a look as best I could tonight with the endoscope and couldn’t see anything.....but...me being me, I am going to try and get that sump off....without removing the reaction plate as I really don’t want to disturb he suspension as it was a pain to do....
From memory I need to raise the engine by an inch or so to clear the reaction plate....so....that’s Saturdays job...assuming all goes well with the valve gaps romorrow.... :bigrin:

Best
J
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
1974 2.7 Carrera now as an RS Touring

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#15 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by mgcjag » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:52 pm

Spend more time looking.........did you actually see it drop.....or could it have fallen outside of the engine?..Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#16 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 265bhp » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:01 pm

Oh no..it dropped in for sure...the clinking sound as it dropped and bounced its way down is still clear in my memory.....
1963 3.8 FHC in slow restoration mode
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#17 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by abowie » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:49 am

265bhp wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 pm

but...me being me, I am going to try and get that sump off....without removing the reaction plate

Best
J
Fair enough. It's entirely doable. You need to rotate the engine so as to have the rear web of the crank positioned to give you maximum clearance. The sump should come off easily. Last time I did it I didn't have to lift the engine.

The sump baffle doesn't reach right to the front of the sump and my bet's that your washer is lying down there.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#18 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by 288gto » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:51 am

abowie wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:49 am
265bhp wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 pm

The sump baffle doesn't reach right to the front of the sump and my bet's that your washer is lying down there.
Morning Jonathan.Just a last ditch thought before you remove the sump. As Andrew mentions there’s a chance it missed the baffle and went straight into the bottom of the sump. Maybe drain all the oil which you would have to do anyway and remove the oil return pipe on the side of the sump. Then go in through that hole with the borescope. As it’s a freshly rebuilt engine it should be pretty clean inside. A long shot but might be worth a try?

Simon
Last edited by 288gto on Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#19 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by paulsco » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 am

Jonathan,

I’m sorry to hear that this has happened to you.

It happened to me while I was rebuilding my engine. I can’t remember exactly what fell, but it was difficult to find, so I feel your pain.

I have had to remove the sump on numerous occasions, for reasons that I won’t bore you with, but I have yet to do it without removing the reaction plate :sad:

Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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#20 Re: Fed up as a washer drops inside the timing case cover

Post by paulsco » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:03 am

Simon,

I just noticed your comment as I was posting.

I tried this, but it is not possible to get from under the baffle plate up and over to the void at the front of the sump.

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Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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