Choice of gearbox ? Help needed

[Rob659]

Guys

I have a late 1964 FHC 4-2 .....Its not a 2+2
Car is basically a rolling shell that I want to build up and give it a historic race look, loose wires
and fit steels etc ?

I have a good engine from a early series 1 XJ6 but need a gearbox ?
(Looking to fit mild cams and triple webers to this engine)

Got to be manual of course.

Will the XJ6 MOD fit this car... Is it possible to remove the Overdrive from the gearbox to make it shorter ?

I can get a Mk10 MOD box and a XJ6 MOD box at good prices but there no good if they wont fit ??
I've been told a mk2 MOD box will not fit and in fact no O/D box will fit ??

Gearstick position info needed ?? I don't mind minor cutting and re-fabbing of tunnel

Any help / info would be really appreciated

Regards

Rob

[christopher storey]

I don't wish to be difficult , but just how many times do we have to answer this question ? I spelt out for you in detail just which gearboxes you could use without difficulty on the other thread you started , and others gave similar answers

[mgcjag]

Hi Rob....you cannot just remove an overdrive to shorten a box as the main shaft goes straight through.....Im assumeing here that you want to do this cheep and not go down the route of a 5 speed gearbox...there are a few options that would fit.....there isnt an o/d option that would work without major work......Steve

[Rob659]

I don't wish to be difficult , but just how many times do we have to answer this question ? I spelt out for you in detail just which gearboxes you could use without difficulty on the other thread you started , and others gave similar answers

To be honest I have not been given a definate answer that is why I posted here in Technical as someone on here suggested ??

I am asking if the XJ6 box will fit and if the overdrive can be taken off ????
Your saying an overdrive box cant be fitted but another chap is saying he has one with an overdrive box
So I am still at a loss ????
I have also been told a mk10 top cover could be used to reposition gear lever ???

Metal fabrication of the tunnel is not a problem as I own a fully fitted out sheet metal shop and my guys can do metal work no problem but I don't want to go mad with alterations

Are XJ6 gear ratios okay etc

It would be nice to have O/D gearbox in a fhc and it would be different ?

Put a Mk1 Lotus Cortina in front of me and I will tell you every nut and bolt on it. But even though I own a few E Types iv'e never really got that much into them ? I am a novice when it comes to spec and changes on these cars.

But many thanks for your help so far

[Rob659]

Hi Rob....you cannot just remove an overdrive to shorten a box as the main shaft goes straight through.....Im assumeing here that you want to do this cheep and not go down the route of a 5 speed gearbox...there are a few options that would fit.....there isnt an o/d option that would work without major work......Steve

Steve

Thanks for this so basically choice is standard E type 4 speed box or go down 5 speed route
So what options do I have for 5 speed, I don't want to spend a fortune ?

Regards
Rob

[mgcjag]

5 speed options......i havent fitted one but they are expensive....post an ad in our wanted section for a 4 syncro u may get lucky http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php? ... 23e1ad669a pm sent

[tinworm]

Your options for a non Jag gearbox would include Getrag (from BMW) and Toyota supra. The only Jag option is the LT77 fitted to the S3 XJ6 (and Landrovers + Rover SD1 - but you still need the bell housing to fit the Jag) These are tough to find and still not cheap. You can convert a XJ6 all synchro to E-type spec but you need the rear cover (£700 ish and rare) and the mainshaft (plus other bits) via Denis Welch motorsport but I am sure you would find this too expensive too. If you use either the getrag,supra,or s3 XJ6 you will get 5 speeds as a bonus but still require the body cutting around. I have not done a conversion using any of these boxes but others on here may have.

Barrie
many years ago I saw an E-type racer that had a modification to remove the standard box (in this instance) from inside the car with a clever trick with the metal work making a two piece cover which mimicked the shape of the welded in tunnel/gearbox side casings with suitable reinforcing sections. This so gearbox and clutch could be changed at a race meeting - this may be of interest.

[mgcjag]

Info on a supra box here but still a lot of cutting http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php? ... 69a#p74503

[mgcjag]

This would possibly be a good purchase....already refurbished......The seller has very good connections with SNGB https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-E-TYP ... Sw6ahe8lkA

[Rob659]

I can buy a LT77 from S3 XJ6
All complete with bell housing etc
Only thing missing is clutch fork ?

Is this the way to go

Will tunnel need much cutting ??

Regards
Rob

[mgcjag]

Hi Rob...dont know about cutting....but think that the flywheel is different for the LT77..if i remember correctly the flywheel for an LT77 has a small hole in the center and a needle roller bearing fits in it and acts as the spigot bearing for the gearbox.....unlike an E type where the gearbox shaft goes through the flywheel and into a spigot bearing in the crankshaft........so a bit of extra research needed....Steve

[Rob659]

The original flywheel and starter from the S3 car are with the gearbox
So I am assuming this will bolt straight onto the earlier 4-2 engine

Is the LT77 much longer than the standard gearbox and where does gearstick end up ?????

Prop can be cut to suit

Regards

Rob

[mgcjag]

Hi Rob...just google search you will find photos and dimensions of the LT77 gearbox...yes its much larger than an E box and the gear lever is further back.......just have a look under one of your other E types and look at the position of the welded in crossmember at the rear if the gearbox...im not talking about the gearbox mount....you will then see that anything longer than an E gearbox will need major cutting ......I posted a link on "5 speed" options...a huge thread...... no one in there as far as im aware fitted an LT77 in a short wheelbase car.......Steve

[abowie]

Over the years many have looked for an easy, cheap gearbox "solution" for the E.

Essentially, there isn't one.

A standard 4 synchro E type box is your best bet.

Other than that, the buy price on the box might be lower but the cost in terms of irritation, time and ruining your classic car escalates.

You've got something special; a series 1 E Type. Don't mess it up.

[steve3.8]

Rob ,As said there is not really a bargain basement solution to the swb, also in contrast to using E Type components it will knock much more off the value of the car than the cost of doing the job correctly .
But If keeping the cost to the minimum is your main priority , i would fit a 4 speed 3.8 -3 syncro E type box, 3.8 flywheel and starter, it will then at least drive as it should [ratios] and be 2nd best period correct.
Be mindful to try to buy or deal on a "complete" gearbox as many like above have been separated/robbed of the speedo drive ,angle drive , reverse switch, gear selector mechanisms , rear spring mount , bellhousing , clutch fork ,etc,a few hundred quid there -- just so the seller makes more !.

[Rob659]

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Thanks for all your help guys. Looks like standard 4 speed will be the way I go ?

Thought I would add pictures of the other cars. My father was more into the E Types. We collected many cars over the years. When he passed 5 years ago I did bring myself to sell a lot of the cars as they were not being used and although in dry storage the condition does go downhill. We had a couple of early 2+2 cars that I sold but decided to keep the 3 roadsters pictured above plus now I also have the 64 FHC

The V12 roadster in the pic is one of the very last registered in 1975 on a N plate. It is a 1 owner 29000 mile car
However when new it was Pink and the owner had it resprayed white when not even a year old. It was re sprayed by the dealer that supplied the car new ?
Ive also got a factory manual 1977 XJS that getting rare these days
The cars are started up from time to time

Regards
Rob

[malcolm]

Wow. Impressive! If I had all those cars, I certainly wouldn't be looking to save a few pounds on the cost of a proper gearbox.

[jp928]

Have some experience of LT77 in Rovers- 2 SD1, 2 P6B converted, Discovery etc so...
The LandRover versions have longer input and output shafts so dont go there. In the SD1s I never got vigorous with the box, only trouble I had was clutch hydraulics. The later boxes known as R380 are repudetly stronger, have synchro reverse, taller 5th (.78 vs .83). Slightly longer in the rear cover area. the '380' is said to be its torque capacity in Nm. Usually only found in 2wd guise in TVR, maybe Morgan +8 etc.
The primary shaft has a plain nose and in Rovers it mates with a plain sintered bronze bush in the crank. From the front face of the box (where the bellhousing would attach) the primary is 195mm long, plain section 35mm, splines (23) 65mm long. The gearlever is 575mm from the front face, the drive flange 500mm from front face. The throwout lever (low on RHS) is clipped to a fulcrum bolt which comes in 3 lengths for different installations, coupled with 2 different lengths of throwout bearing carrier.
https://i.imgur.com/JjYlwKa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zKtiDBB.jpg
Rover Installations use the long throwout, middle fulcrum bolt. Get this wrong, you will either get a VERY heavy clutch, or no disengagement - BTDT. A clutch master of 0.625 or 0.7" will work well with a 0.875 slave cylinder. Rover clutch is a 9.5" unit.
The box serial prefix should tell you its original use , with a suffix as well - A and B suffixes are weakest, serial on the underside of the front of the iron case, later units had a flat pad near the drain plug on the side with serial on it. There are 2 different speedo drive gears on the output shaft, which mate with 6 different cable driving gears - look this up on gomog.
My current box in a P6B V8 is running well on Red Line MTL - original spec of 75W90 was changed early on due to poor changes when cold. Current spec is ATF Type F.
A search on LT77 in classicroverforum will bring up much info, as it is a common upgrade for the V8 P6B model.
jp

Check this out - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/195942659132