Series 3 Door Mirror

Technical advice Q&A

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SESH
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#1 Series 3 Door Mirror

Post by SESH » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:52 pm

My Series 3 V12 DHC is in the process of a bare metal restoration. I am told that the current door mirror doesn't look like the correct one. Does anyone have a picture and part number for the correct mirror.
Thanks
Mike

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D COUPE
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#2

Post by D COUPE » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:06 pm

Mike sorry I cant answer Your question BUT I have spent
a few months looking for the right/correct one and there
does not seem to be a standard factory option door mirror.

I have seen them with long arm mirrors and the 'bullet'
type. I at present dont have any could not find the right
looking one.

It will be interesting to see which mirror is the right one

Dave C

Image

Image

Image

Image

A few versions but whos right I would suggest the Black comm is right so no mirrors it is
ITS NOT WHAT YOU DRIVE ITS HOW GOOD YOU LOOK IN IT

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vipergts
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#3

Post by vipergts » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:38 pm

They were never standard so quite often you would end up with a Paddy Hopkirk mirror like mine.

Sorry not very clear to see.

The big remote mirrors were off latter XJs but were subsequently fitted.

Image

Image
S1 4.2 Coupe

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MarkE
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#4

Post by MarkE » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:11 pm

Great pictures....I'm in lust!!

However, I'm afraid that you have to forfeit your Commemorative. Door mirrors were required for certain markets, and from April 1972 the remote-controlled mirror was factory fitted as standard to all E types shipped to the USA and Canada. Mine certainly had one (just the one, on the drivers side) (December 1972 car) and it is identical to the ones you mention on the XJ6 right up to the early XJ-S in 1976.

Earlier cars had the straightforward slightly curved out manually adjusted door mirrors.

As the mirrors were not mandatory for the UK market, I would imagine that as well as the standard two types mentioned above, virtually any other type would have been fitted by the dealer on request.

I'll try and find some pictures.

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#5

Post by MarkE » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Found some, all from factory brochures / press piccies

Here's the early mirror....it's the thing on the door to the right for those of you distracted.....

Image

and....

Image

And the later type....

Image

with a bit more detail here....

Image

If any detail pics of the remote mirror are required let me know and I'll dig mine out....I removed it from my car when it was painted.

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#6

Post by vipergts » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:32 pm

Mark....You don't know what you're talking about :lol:

I bow to your superior knowledge. Lots I've seen have many period aftermaket examples. Wasn't thinking US as their laws have always ruined our pretty cars. :P
S1 4.2 Coupe

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#7

Post by SESH » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:10 am

I think that deleting the door mirror is the best cosmetic option as the lines of the car look better. But from a safety point of view and to save ricking my neck every time I want to pull out, I think I will fit one. I think that the mirror in question is a Tex Mirror (the curved arm type). They were fitted to a lot of Leyland cars in the 70's. Thanks for all your help as usual guys. Any other pictures appreciated.
Mike

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D COUPE
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#8

Post by D COUPE » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:20 pm

Well I have made a decision on the mirrors.

Not exactly factory but I just could not bring Myself to
drilling holes in the doors. When they arrive I wiill
let You know what I really think. Sometimes You have to spend the money to find out its not right :D :lol: :lol:



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
ITS NOT WHAT YOU DRIVE ITS HOW GOOD YOU LOOK IN IT

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#9

Post by calum » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:12 pm

Hi.

Does anybody know the TEX part for the stalk for the earlier mirror? Bought one that looked the same (I think it was for a triumph stag) but it has the wrong angle for the mirror head - not enough adjustment in the stem to head to account for the 'wrong' angle of the stem for our cars.

Thanks,

Calum
1973 Series 3 2+2. UK car that was converted to LHD. Now back in UK as of Nov 2013.

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#10

Post by calum » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:15 pm

Sorry - should explain - previous owner converted the car to LHD and it does not have a mirror there! So looking to fit one to that side for ease of use!

Thanks,

Calum
1973 Series 3 2+2. UK car that was converted to LHD. Now back in UK as of Nov 2013.

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#11

Post by SESH » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:39 pm

After fitting what I was told by TEX to be the correct mirror, it doesn't adjust enough to be able to see behind. The only way I can get a reasonable rear view is by placing a shim under the spring loaded section and angling the mirror head to its max. Someone at TEX is telling everyone that these are the correct mirrors. They are not! :x
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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#12

Post by Gfhug » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:03 am

SESH, is this the type of Tex mirror you've got?
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 33c7a2&l=7

If so I had to modify it to fit my S2 FHC because of the very limited range of adjustment.
Of all the silly things, but it worked, was to craft a cup washer out of the bottom of a plastic drinks bottle (at the moulding eye in the centre) and put this under the mirror where it bolts to the arm. It has greatly increased the angular adjustment.

A bit of a faff, but with some fettling it'll work.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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#13

Post by vee12eman » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:13 am

Hi,

I too had a hard time looking for the "original" style mirror for my early Series 3 FHC. I initially came to the conclusion that the Tex mirror was the best, but as you say, the angle of the mirror is impossible to adjust and even when close, it actually looks ugly and awkwardly out of alignment. I bought from several sources but couldn't get a satisfactory result, all had the awkward head - very frustrating as I was rebuilding on a budget and spent more on different (useless) mirrors than I had on more significant items. Eventually, I gave up on the original style and bought Tex clip on mirrors which had the same heads as the originals but secured to the window frame. Visibility was excellent, but the mirror adjustment screws had to be very tight to resist movement in the wind stream.

I posted my results here:

viewtopic.php?t=2600&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

As you will see in the later posts, I didn't give up and eventually contacted SNG Barratt, Julian Barratt was kind enough to answer personally and some modification was made to their design, particularly around the mounting of the head to arm, giving much more angular adjustment. He also told me that their design was NOT the same as the Tex mirror. To my surprise, he sent me one and I can report that, when placed next to my own mirrors, it appear to be very suitable. I did not drill my door to accept, so the results are not definitive, but in a trial fit holding by hand, I managed to get the head of the SNG mirror in a position very similar to that of my own clip on mirror, indicating they could be used. However, by now, I liked my own mirrors so much that I elected to stick with them - no drilling, good visibility and good looking IMHO. Later, a friend bought a Series 2 from USA, which has an original LH mirror fitted. Comparing my RH mirror from SNG indicates they are to the same design, although obviously a mirror image (no pun intended!).

In conclusion, I would say give up on the Tex design and either buy clip ons, like my own, or buy from SNG. I now have a large collection of mirrors I will probably never use! Incidentally, the quality of the SNG version is better than that of the Tex type, at least to my eyes.

The thread includes a post by David (Heuer), in which an extract from the Jaguar manual has the mirror position shown on the bonnet. I can only conclude that this is for early cars, since all the Series 2 and 3 cars I have seen with the original mirror (including pictures in the S3 parts catalogue and brochure, show the mirrors on the door - I never got a definitive answer to location, but make sure that you have a position which works for both doors from the driver's seat as it is easy to drill and fit in the "perfect" position on the driver's side, but find that the same position on the passenger door is useless, either obstructed by window frame or you just can't adjust the angle sufficiently. Don't be tempted to fit on the bulkhead forward of the windscreen as any water which creeps in under the seal will end up in the bulkhead and there is now way out, so it just sits there and corrodes the bulkhead from inside out.

Finally, later Series 3 cars had a remote mirror fitted, also available from SNG, but requiring modification to the inner door panel for the remote switch. I was contemplating this, but in the end never tried it.

Best of luck,

Simon
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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iani
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#14

Post by iani » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:02 pm

I note your comment about alignment Simon, have you tried fitting these:

http://bit.ly/1x8sypL

I've used the on my Stag in the past and they do improve the adjustment considerably, I note they were originally designed for Jaguars.

Ian
1970 S2 2+2 4sp w/OD in BRG

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#15

Post by Gfhug » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:53 pm

It's interesting to read Simon's comments about SNG and their modification to the mirrors, as the ones I recently bought from them certainly needed the parts Iani suggests (which is what I self-fabricated) to be of any use and when I chatted to SNG about the problems they were totally disinterested. :(
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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#16

Post by SESH » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:55 pm

Gfhug wrote:SESH, is this the type of Tex mirror you've got?
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 33c7a2&l=7

If so I had to modify it to fit my S2 FHC because of the very limited range of adjustment.
Of all the silly things, but it worked, was to craft a cup washer out of the bottom of a plastic drinks bottle (at the moulding eye in the centre) and put this under the mirror where it bolts to the arm. It has greatly increased the angular adjustment.

A bit of a faff, but with some fettling it'll work.

Geoff
Hi Geoff,
This is the one in question.
Mike

On TEX Website http://texautomotive.com/classic_exterior_mirrors.html
MB321F
Flat Glass
MB321C
Convex Glass
Viewmaster? Springback Right Hand
Polished Stainless
B3 Head - 140mm x 90mm
21 Stem - Base 32mm dia.
Hole - 16mm dia. Hole Centres - 38mm
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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#17

Post by Gfhug » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:31 pm

Hi Mike, that looks the same, please check my link above to help confirm. I went for plain glass, but that is down to you and they aren't expensive to change.

Get those washers Iani suggests, or make your own. Then spend lots of time being really happy with where you'll fit, both passenger and driver's side. I was advised to add a doubler under the base plate inside the door. Not sure if it was really needed, and it is a faff. On reflection :wink: I might have positioned mine further forward on the door for better rear view, as the passenger blocks the view slightly through that side mirror.

Be prepared to take some time getting the mirrors really nicely angled, both before drilling and after fitting. They are so much smaller than modern car mirrors.

But I'm so glad I fitted them, makes it so much more comfortable being able to see all those boy racers who only sit in the outside lane. And much better than the vibrating clip on ones.

Is it really 16mm dia holes?

PM me if you decide to buy and want further 'advice' :wink:

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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#18

Post by vee12eman » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:09 am

Hi again,

Just going to point out that the clip on mirrors that I have don't vibrate, otherwise I would be fitting the SNG original style mirrors, especially as I was fortunate enough to have been given one. Also, although many seem to think the Tex mirrors fit, they are clearly different from the SNG ones and look awkward when fitted. I have both and have seen an original so I know which one looks most accurate and stylish.

Your choice completely of course, and not a rant against Tex, after all my clip on (more of a clamp on really) examples are made by Tex and when I spoke to them, they have further modified them for better fit and function. They were in the process of doing this when I rang them to buy a pair, so had no stock of either old or new design. I needed something for my RWC (Aussie version of MOT) so looked around for someone with stock of the old type, which I found, fitted and am delighted with.

Regards,
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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#19

Post by Gfhug » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:59 pm

Simon, maybe SNG sell two different types of mirror, but the ones they sold me were the Tex and I had to do the mods to make them work.
We seem to be getting different mirrors and experiences from them. Do you have a part number different from the one I show? Maybe Mike should have a good long chat with them before buying. And the SIII are mirrors are different from those that fit the earlier cars, although the Tex may fit the later ones, too.

Regards
Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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#20

Post by SESH » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:40 pm

Hi Geoff,
Unfortunately my mirror is already drilled and fitted so no choice but to leave it in situ!
I will look into the cups idea and see if it makes a difference.
Mike.
1973 Series 3 OTS Signal Red

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