you to clean aluminium

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MLBS3V12
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#1 you to clean aluminium

Post by MLBS3V12 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:02 am

Hi all,

I'm looking for a solution to be used at home to make aluminium parts as clean as if they were brand new ones.
An engine in a clean condition under an a S3 bonnet with the same condition for the 4 Stromberg is wonderful.
But how to do that ?
For the copper parts, it is easy with some muriatic acid.
but what can be used to get the same reasult for aluminium?

regards
Le chemin sera long!...

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Riv944
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#2

Post by Riv944 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:20 am

What are you trying to remove? if just oily deposits, Gunk will do it.

Ian
E type series 2 4.2 LHD, US spec with 3 SU carb and 2.88:1 diff conversion.

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vee12eman
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#3

Post by vee12eman » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:09 am

Hi Michel,

I think the reason that you haven?t had an answer on this one is that most people now leave the cleaning up to the professionals. When I had my engine reconditioned some years ago, I was hoping originally to do it myself, but the cleaning and other aspects all looked rather daunting. I have cleaned alloy before, very slowly with thinners, petrol and many other substances, plus scrapers, nail and tooth brushes. You always end up with a lot of waste product to dispose of, contaminated with old oil, corrosion and lots of other nasty stuff. Further, you can only really clean the accessible parts. Another point is that when I saw my engine, rebuilt and after a thorough chemical clean, I realised I had never been able to approach that sort of finish. I am trying again with another alloy engine (not a Jaguar), but no way can I get the same finish.

For something the size and complexity of the V12 engine, can I suggest it is more economic and certainly easier to consider professional chemical cleaning. You will get a much better result, no waste product to guiltily pour down the drain (!) it will look good but, most importantly, you will know that the inaccessible areas such as oil passages, galleries and jets are clean as they should be of all old muck and dirt. This will give your engine much better chance of long life and reliability.

Regards,

Simon.
Simon S-Y
Series III FHC

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#4

Post by vipergts » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:23 am

My V12 (as others I'm sure) was washed etc when they rebuilt the engine and although spotless these engines always seem to take on a grey hue.

I don't think its an easy job to brighten it up so I went for the "thats how it would have come out of the factory" approach

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S1 4.2 Coupe

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#5

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:11 pm

Very clean car but am astonished that you are refitting that air injection junk.

As for cleaning, if the parts are so inaccessible that you can't clean them easily, they are also so inaccessible that you can't be easily offended by a bit of dirt in those out of the way places. Cleanliness is next to godliness but both are uncomfortably close to restricted use of the car for my liking. Angus is about the only person I know whose E-type is spotless AND used in all weathers, but he has a car lift and years of square-bashing in the RAF to call on...

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#6

Post by vipergts » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:14 pm

Emissions crap fitted for the sake of originality but has been blanked off so as not to lean off the mixture
S1 4.2 Coupe

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#7

Post by Malk » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:17 am

Ice blasting still the best way forward. Certainly better stripped down and then hit hard - I have plenty of video of it working very well cleaning especially oil in aircraft parts.

A lot can be left in situ, granted wiring in a 40year old E would take a pounding but hoses etc will be fine in place and certainly clean up any oil residue a lot safer and quicker than water.

www.icecleaners.co.uk for few bits video/info.

Need a compressor (250cfm with 6bar preferably) and ice is apprx 95p/Kg bought in 100Kg containers.

Not cheap but looking at labour cost for stripping an engine purely for a clean up it may serve a purpose. Defo better on chassis and painted areas for prepping than sand/shot.

M.
http://www.karcher-center-chemtec.co.uk

@malcolmsetton

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#8

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:34 am

vipergts wrote:Emissions crap fitted for the sake of originality but has been blanked off so as not to lean off the mixture
Que? Say again?

Please to essplain me 'ow mixture she is leaned by pumping air into de esshaust ? :oops:

Mixture leaning is impossible and fitting but blanking is pointless.

In any case, the air pump only works very briefly at start up, to heat the exhaust and burn off pollutants during the warm-up phase. It was perfectly original for the rest of the world to do without that junk. So unless you were aiming for a catalogue spec American car why bother? And if you were, why polish and plate way beyond factory spec?

Nah, don't mind me, I'm just jealous of your cars. But if someone told you that air injection leaned off the mixture you can put them straight, and while you're at it tell them most nuts tighten clockwise....
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#9

Post by vipergts » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 pm

I dont want to fight about this but as far as I could work out when building it the pump is driven off the belts along with everything else up front which pushes air through a tube up the back of the engine to the middle of the V, through a valve and distributes air down the rails to the bottom of the inlet manifolds thus leaning the mixture.

So..not sure how this would heat the exhaust.? Those black things are inlet manifolds

And its not supposed to be a "catalogue spec american car" This car (as all late V12's) left the factory for the UK like this. Furthermore polished to this degree because that's also how I like it.
S1 4.2 Coupe

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#10

Post by MarkE » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:53 pm

When I bought my Californian S3 I went up to Browns Lane to have a look at their commemorative car, HDU 555N. They led me off into a side room where the car was kept, and I poured over it for hours, photographing all the bits to make sure I got the lhd / rhd conversion right.

I was surprised to see that it had all the emissions stuff that I had just taken off my car! Given that mine was a '72 car, and I was putting it to '72 UK spec, the originality conscience was satisfied. But if I was doing a commemorative, I would absolutely keep all the correct bits and pieces with the car. A lot of small rubber pipes, pumps and filters, but it's an important car and deserves to be as original IMHO.

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#11

Post by PeterCrespin » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:42 pm

vipergts wrote:I dont want to fight about this but as far as I could work out when building it the pump is driven off the belts along with everything else up front which pushes air through a tube up the back of the engine to the middle of the V, through a valve and distributes air down the rails to the bottom of the inlet manifolds thus leaning the mixture.

So..not sure how this would heat the exhaust.? Those black things are inlet manifolds
No fight intended, but you can't say black is white and not expect to be corrected. I tried to be humourous with my Manuel impersonation, but you can have it straight if you are still insisting you're right...

The system is as I described it. Just because a connection is made on the flange of an inlet manifold doesn't mean the drilling comes out in the inlet port. In fact if you think about it, it couldn't be like you describe it, whereas what I said makes sense. I don't mind people making an honest mistake - we all do. But when you're in a hole it makes sense to put your shovel down and reconsider your assumptions, if someone corrects you.

Cold running requires RICH mixture, not weak, so they would never run the air pump at start-up if it was blowing into the inlet. The fact is that the engine requires so much enrichment to get a cold-combustible mixture into the chamber that there is vast over-fuelling that dribbles its way into the chamber and there is unburnt fuel (AKA pollution) in the exhaust. That is why you need air injected into the exhaust, to let the extra fuel burn off during warm up.The drillings are into the exhaust ports, even though the attachment is from the inside of the vee. You couldn't easily arrange pipework over the cam boxes into the ports. They use the same system on the sixes in American XJs of the period - the air injection is into the exhaust ports via drillings that start in the valley between the cams.

Having said all that, I do withdraw my amazement that you would refit that stuff, given that your car is one of the commemorative models. It is more understandable on a historically-significant car than a common-or-garden US import.

As I said, I'm jealous of your cars and the work looks to be of a high standard. Hopefully you've learned something you didn't know and will get a bit more satisfaction from your Series 3. Either way, don't shoot the messenger.

Peteo
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#12

Post by vipergts » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:15 pm

I'm no expert but was pretty sure I was right on this but stand corrected.

The strange thing is (and this is what convinced me more) the car would bog down when warm and off choke when trying to accelerate (as if it were cold and you've pushed the choke in too soon) So by pulling the choke out slightly would give it smoother better acceleration.(richer mixture)

I assumed from this that the mixture was too lean, blocked off the air pump and the car ran fine from then on. Maybe there's an explanation to this that I am over looking??

The car I'm afraid won't get any use, I know its a great shame but having grown up as a nipper loving the V12 I now have no pleasure from driving one. My heart has jumped the years and I'm a straight 6 fan from now, they seem to be a car that I feel happier to grab by the scruff of the neck and drive far more enthusiastically.
S1 4.2 Coupe

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#13

Post by PeterCrespin » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:50 am

vipergts wrote:The car I'm afraid won't get any use, I know its a great shame but having grown up as a nipper loving the V12 I now have no pleasure from driving one. My heart has jumped the years and I'm a straight 6 fan from now, they seem to be a car that I feel happier to grab by the scruff of the neck and drive far more enthusiastically.
My first Euro tour was in a Series 3 OTS and it's the only Jag apart from my current Super V8 where I didn't mind it being auto. I've had half a dozen V12s - my last one only a couple of years ago, and they are all seductive but to me the fuel cost does get to the point where it inhibits use. The whole hobby is about time behind the wheel for me, so I like to use my Jags routinely all year round. If I have to factor cost into every little impulse trip it takes a little of the shine away too. Just nipping into town would be twenty quid and for someone of my means I at least have to think about it. Besides, it is hard to drive a twelve enthusiastically - even an auto - without risking your licence. Large bikes and V12s are not the way to stay points-free :-(
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#14

Post by PeterCrespin » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:00 am

My first 'E-type' Euro tour I should say. I started going over in my teens on motorbikes and driving my parent's car.

BTW, the air pump only operates when the engine is cold, so although your symptom does sound like weak stumbling, the fact the air pump should not have been running, plus the fact it doesn't feed into the inlets rules it out as a cause. I haven't thought through the EGR valve / 'gulp valve' ramifications as a possible cause. I've avoided getting too clued up on those systems by chucking everything out on my less historic twelves. I also cut out all extraneous vacuum tubes etc where possible, to get a cleaner looking engine and less to go wrong. I recognise why you don't wish to do that, but troubleshooting any emmissions-related issues would be beyond my appetite for helping here.

Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas

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#15

Post by Roman K » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:19 pm

This is one way to go.

http://www.poleringsguide.se/english/


Oh... sory for not introducing myself :oops:
I'll do that soon :roll:

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#16

Post by 1954Etype » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:09 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:Very clean car but am astonished that you are refitting that air injection junk.

As for cleaning, if the parts are so inaccessible that you can't clean them easily, they are also so inaccessible that you can't be easily offended by a bit of dirt in those out of the way places. Cleanliness is next to godliness but both are uncomfortably close to restricted use of the car for my liking. Angus is about the only person I know whose E-type is spotless AND used in all weathers, but he has a car lift and years of square-bashing in the RAF to call on...

Pete
Whoa! Steady on! Just read this thread and didn't realise I was having the rise taken out of me. Oh and I only had 6.5 years of military service in the Royal Air Force (as we like to call it). I dunno, put my life on the line for you lot and this is all the thanks I get, during the war we....

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#17

Post by MarekH » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:36 am

Lee,
The workings of the emissions equipment is covered in the tan (US) Owners Manual which has about 30+ extra pages vis-a-vis the same blue (UK) booklet.

It's easy to think it is all one big construct, but the air injection pump and air rails to the exhaust manifolds are separate in function from the gulp valve & cocktail of hoses/solenoids to the inlet manifolds.

I would have thought different grade oil in the dashpots might help your acceleration problem - perhaps others can comment.

kind regards
Marek

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#18

Post by vipergts » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:18 am

Cheers Mark.......I am confused though and wonder whether we're all talking about the same thing

I dont have anything connected to the actual exhaust manifolds, only the rail that runs into the bottom of the inlets which I am told is actually the exhaust???

I need a cross diagram to show me the internals
S1 4.2 Coupe

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#19

Post by MarekH » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:42 am

re The inlet manifold - "Yes that's right" - the "legs" of the inlet manifolds have three holes:- two for regular bolts to hold each branch of the inlet manifold to the block and a third hole which goes straight down into the head and joins to the exhaust port for each cylinder. The smog pump pumps air (through a non-return valve so exhaust gas can't come back towards the smog pump) into the exhaust ports exactly as Peter says so any unburnt petrol has something to burn with and thus reduce NOx emissions.

Early inlet manifolds (and some non North American bound cars) don't have a "third hole" and obviously no set of air rails or smog pump. People who desmog their cars typically tap the third hole and put a bolt into it so that exhaust gases doesn't blow into the "V".

The gulp valve provides some air (from one of the airboxes) to the inlet manifolds when you come off of the throttle to prevent popping and then the rest is a cocktail of solenoids and sensors all connected to achieve vacuum retard under different conditions, i.e. to warm the engine up quicker and thus produce less emissions at startup.

Have a look at the s3 parts manual elsewhere in Knowledge Base on this site which has most of these features/variations listed.

kind regards
Marek

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#20

Post by vipergts » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:14 pm

Great explanation Mark

I am told this system saps so much power....why is this?
S1 4.2 Coupe

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