3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

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abowie
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#1 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by abowie » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:51 am

Mine doesn't work.
I notice that SNG sell a replacement unit with a modern pump attached for 125 UK pounds.
Looking at it it seems to be just a replacement pump on the original frame.
Can anyone suggest a suitable pump?
I know it needs to be 2.7psi, but if someone's already been down this track it would save me some time.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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Heuer
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#2

Post by Heuer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:53 am

I have just installed the SNG submersible pump and it works very well. The PO had installed a Facet which was an abomination in terms of noise and complexity of installation. Why people fit them is beyond me! It had to be located (3.8 FHC) in the rear right hand wing and then required a fuel pressure valve to avoid flooding the SU's. The noise it made was like a jet aircraft whilst the pressure regulator made an asthmatic burble so driving the car was intolerable - maybe you could get away with it in an OTS but still a complex and expensive alternative. The new submersible pump is a direct fit and uses a modern motor and an impressive filter. It does not sit vertically into the tank sump but arcs down across the tank bottom which means any debris will be left undisturbed in the sump. Very clever and a bargain price, clearly designed by someone who understood the problems.

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Last edited by Heuer on Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Jones
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Dave K
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#3

Post by Dave K » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:39 pm

I installed the SBGB submersible pump about 6 years ago, it works perfectly. The pump is I was told an XJ one mounted in a frame to suit the E-Type. From the outside it looks totally original.

Dave

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neil4444
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#4

Post by neil4444 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:13 pm

Hi,

Reading this thread I'm just wondering if I've gone the wrong way with the fuel pump on my 3.8
Hutsons recommended that during the bodyshell rebuild I have the bracket fitted for 4.2 type fuel pump rather than submersible. Please can anyone advise whether this is the best way forward or should I retain the submersible albeit an upgraded one ?

Regards,

Neil

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#5

Post by christopher storey » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:48 pm

The submersible pump is a rather peculiar idea, and it was not continued by Jaguar after the 3.8, which speaks volumes. My own view ( and admittedly I am a 4.2 man ) is that the pump in the right hand wing is a much more practical and safer option. It is readily and safely accessible if anything does go wrong with it, and much easier to work on than the submerged pump. You pays your money and you makes your choice.

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#6

Post by 1954Etype » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:09 pm

I agree with Chris on this one. Easy to change without disturbing the tank and more choices available.
Angus 65 OTS 1E11497. 67 FHC 1E33656

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#7

Post by neil4444 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:15 am

Thanks chaps. I'll proceed as is then.

Regards,

Neil

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#8

Post by Heuer » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:23 am

There is a supply problem with the SU pumps at the moment and a large back order so don't go pulling things apart just yet. The electronic SU pumps are a better bet than the mechanical ones which fail after periods of standing idle . I have the electronic SU in my OTS and the submersible in the FHC 3.8 - the latter was a doddle to install and it means not having to run pipes and wiring around the boot area. Also the location of the SU in he wheel arch means it can be a pain to install or get at. The upgrade to the later SU recommended before a decent submersible replacement was available.
David Jones
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#9

Post by Dave K » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:58 pm

christopher storey wrote:The submersible pump is a rather peculiar idea, and it was not continued by Jaguar after the 3.8, which speaks volumes. My own view ( and admittedly I am a 4.2 man ) is that the pump in the right hand wing is a much more practical and safer option. It is readily and safely accessible if anything does go wrong with it, and much easier to work on than the submerged pump. You pays your money and you makes your choice.
Why a safer option? And as far as I know the SNGB electronic fuel pump is a verion of the XJ submersible pump so Jaguar must have carried on with fitting submersed fuel pumps as do most manufacturers now.

Dave

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#10

Post by christopher storey » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:28 pm

Dave : I really do not like anything electrical being intimately connected with up to 14 gallons of fuel ( although I suppose that in fact the tank is at its most dangerous when nearly empty ! ) . Also, sod's law dictates that if you have a fault in the pump, it will happen with a full tank, when extracting the pump is likely to become a very messy business . My only real emergency in my flying career was an electrical fire - in flight - , and I became a real respecter of electrical problems overnight , since which I prefer electricals and flammables to be kept strictly apart

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#11

Post by Dave K » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:40 pm

Christopher,

The lower explosive limit (LEL) of gasoline is 1.4% and the upper explosive limit (UEP) is 7.6% gas (vapour) in air. This means the explosive window is extremely small and with any amount of fuel in the tank the amount of gas in air mixture will be as high as 99% so having an electrical fault start a fire is almost impossible short of having the filler tank open and the pump removed while pumping air into the tank and waving a spark gun around. A naked flame is not hot enough to ignite the mixture you need a spark which would have a temperature of around 450 degrees C. Even a malfunction of the pump itself and it overheating it would have to heat the fuel up to around 250 C for it to explode, again an impossible situation from such a small motor which is fuse protected. As they say in the Haynes manual when working on any cars electrical system you should always disconnect the battery first then that mitigates any chance of a spark occurring. Working in the high pressure gas industry we have all sorts of electrical equipment in hazardous areas and once you understand ignition points of various gases and vapours you make sure you take the precautions required to prevent a spark.

Dave

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#12

Post by christopher storey » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:35 am

Dave : interesting and comforting . I'm still wary of the combination of electrics and flammables , particularly having been shown two electronic SU pumps - admittedly of the double headed type which I think come from an S3 or an XK 150 - which had actually melted which suggests that fuse protection is not perhaps as reliable as we might like. ( These were shown to me at Hutson's )

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#13 submersible pump

Post by david muir » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:20 pm

Folks,
Considering a new pump (1000 mile round trip to Goodwood Revival coming up!)and was looking in SNG's catalogue.Although I seemed to find it in there (C19919R),couldn't find it in the price list!
How much are they?

David

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#14

Post by Heuer » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:12 pm

About ?125 I seem to recall and it was in the price list a few weeks back.
David Jones
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#15

Post by abowie » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:07 pm

It's C19919* but out of stock until the end of next month.
The "R" suffix indicates a reconditioned unit.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#16

Post by Sarthe72 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:29 am

Had an interesting conversation today about these pumps, and it seems that there were a batch that had a peculiar problem, so if it happens to you send it back and they'll replace it with a new one. Apparently the petrol climbed up the inside of the wire sheath by capillary action and caused a big stink in the boot. I spoke to Barratt's today and they acknowledge the batch but say it was an isolated instance and all is well with orders placed now - except they are again out of stock!

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#17

Post by Heuer » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:26 pm

I was the first to have the problem and worked with SNGB to help solve it. Only happens if you brim the tank and leave the car standing for a few hours but not fun - in my case the garage was full of fumes with petrol all over the floor. Latest pumps have the fix which involved a different rubber grommet and some sealant. Nobody believed me at first because there were no other reported problems mainly because a lot of cars were still under restoration and how often does an owner brim the tank and park the car up. The saga from start to finish here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4855

Mine has been fine for the last 4 months - full tank, no leaks. Only thing I do notice is as the tank empties the pump gets louder (in the FHC).
Last edited by Heuer on Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Jones
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#18

Post by 64etype » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:50 pm

I just ordered one from SNG (U.S.). They fessed up to the earlier issue and assured me that the defect is no more, and that current stock will not leak.
Eric

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#19

Post by abowie » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:26 am

Mine's in and working but as the car is not yet drivable I haven't actually completely filled the tank yet. I remain pessimistic...
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
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#20 Availability of pump only?

Post by PhilBell » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:24 pm

Anyone know where you can buy just the AC pump part of the 3.8 submersible arrangement? I'd like to carry one as a spare but don't want to buy the whole assembly just for that.
Phil
1962 FHC 885626

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