3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

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Heuer
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#21

Post by Heuer » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Are you referring to the original Lucas in tank or the SNGB submersible replacement? The former is unavailable and probably not a good idea to have on your car anyway. The SNGB one uses a pump motor from an XJ which is by all accounts very reliable so it would not occur to me to carry a spare.
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#22 3.8 submersible pump

Post by PhilBell » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:25 am

It's the XJ6-derived upgrade made by AC: 154801603L
Phil
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#23

Post by Heuer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:15 am

Available but not cheap: http://tinyurl.com/o4apjq6 0 check whether you need the LH or RH version. Personal view - take an SNB catalogue with you, if the pump (or anything else) fails they can overnight it to your Hotel. France is particularly well served as SNGB have a distribution centre there.
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#24 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:07 pm

Just found out that my original fuel pump is ready for retirement, its only a slight buzz from it and I have to put the ear on the tank to hear it. From past I remember I could hear it from the driving seat. With a clean system it does not deliver to the carbs, just able to pump gas to the filter.

I am going to order the "modern" submersible pump from SNG, suppose everyone that has them are happy with them?

Since my car is positive ground should still the black cable go to the black on car and the red on the pump with the white in my car? (Given that the pump come with those colours of course)

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While servicing my car I also discovered that the "maintenance free / never flood again" balltype float valves all needed pressurized air to open, there is a small ball on top of the big ball (the visible one) that kind of had seated in all three float valves. Anyone had this experience with this type of float valve?

Maybe a good fuel pump would have been able to open them but (me) blowing through was not possible.
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#25 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by Heuer » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:07 pm

I have the SNGB submersible which originally caused problems with leaking fuel. SNGB addressed the problem and solved it very quickly and the pump has been perfect ever since.
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#26 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:18 am

Thanks David, I was going to place an order yesterday evening but they seem to be out of stock. I'll give SNG a call tomorrow and check when they are expected in.
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#27 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by abowie » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:38 pm

trondvo wrote:
I am going to order the "modern" submersible pump from SNG, suppose everyone that has them are happy with them?

While servicing my car I also discovered that the "maintenance free / never flood again" balltype float valves all needed pressurized air to open, there is a small ball on top of the big ball (the visible one) that kind of had seated in all three float valves. Anyone had this experience with this type of float valve?
I was the OP in this thread.
The original unit I got from SNGB leaked around the cable gland. The replacement I got from them doesn't leak; all they seem to have done was put some glue over the top of the gland around the cable. Crude but seems to have worked.
Sounds like you are describing Grosse Jets in your carbs. I've never used them but others on the Board will have.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
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#28 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by MarekH » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:14 pm

For anyone who has re-read the whole thread - if you look at the circuit diagram, the fuel pump runs straight from the ignition switch so isn't fused at all, hence the reported melted "mess". Fit a fuse if you have any sense.

Also, the mechainces of the SU pump is the same for the electronic and mechanical pumps - the "electronic" part is that the points close to activate a transistor so that the high current to power the pump doesn't run through the points - it runs only through the transistor which is a high current specification item. The result is that the points won't arc and hence ought not to wear nearly as much.

kind regards
Marek

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#29 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by abowie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:50 am

MarekH wrote: if you look at the circuit diagram, the fuel pump runs straight from the ignition switch so isn't fused at all, hence the reported melted "mess".
Marek
From memory doesn't it run from it's own fuse with a 5A fuse on #4?
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
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#30 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by MarekH » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:52 am

I stand corrected!

It is on the s1 3.8 wiring diagram, but is omitted from the s1 4.2, s2 and s3 wiring diagrams. How bizarre is that?

kind regards
Marek

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#31 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:03 pm

I got the pump today and installed it. Did not have time to start the car with the new pump but it seem to be working well, one of the carbs flooded and I have to look at the ball valve(s).

It does make more noise than the original but do not think it will be possible to hear the pump with engine running. I had to bend the pump-bracket a little, else the brass filter would be pushing quite heavy on the bottom of the tank, resulting in more noise than neccessary.

Anyone know how much pressure this pump give? Maybe I have to use a pressure regulator, perhaps hook it up to a gauge to see what is delivers.

From what I have read my triple SU's would be happy with 2 psi up to max 4 psi?

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61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#32 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by Heuer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:20 pm

I run mine without a pressure control with no problems. The SU's are expecting a pressure of 2.5psi but the pumps tend to be rated at about 4psi to provide fuel when negotiating a steep hill. If you are concerned fit a Filter King which looks almost exactly the same as stock but with pressure adjustment. The pump is a lot quieter with a full tank of fuel and boards/hardura in place!
David Jones
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#33 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:24 pm

Given my fuel pressure gauge is correct the new pump gave 5.5 psi after the original AC filter. This was obviously too much, after 30 seconds the rear carb gave up and sent a steady spray of fuel out of the drain tube.

I do have a couple old Malpassi filter-king's, hooked the best one up and managed to regulate pressure down to below 3 psi with more to go. I did not have the hardware to connect it inline with the carbs and cant say whether 2.5 psi would have been a success but most likely, right?

Conclusion so far is that the SNG pump need pressure regulation, well at least in my car. :fingerscrossed:
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#34 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by Sarthe72 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:56 am

Just updating this thread following a problem which, to be fair, was of my own making. I was going to the launch of an event for Le Mans which is featuring Jaguar this year, so got the car out and left it ticking over to warm through a bit. I went inside to collect my things and five minutes later came out to find the car had stalled. The ignition of course was still on, but the pump was dead. We are investigating further now, but in over 30 years I've never had such a problem with any Jaguar using the traditional external pump.

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#35 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:44 pm

Spent a few hours trying to sort this out.

I tried two inline dial type fuel regulators I had, they worked but gave variations in pressure, the filter king gave a steady pressure and is easy to adjust.

My conclusion so far is that with this pump (which deliver almost 6 psi) David's suggestion the Malpassi Filter King is the better solution.

Suppose I will order the Filter king with the pressure gauge, my old ones are without gauge and does not have the possibility for gauge either.

A question arose, does one have to lower the rear suspension to change the fuel line?

I already changed the short line in the booth, the line from filter to carbs and now I wanted to change the line that run from connector in the booth to filter. If I have to lower the rear end I rather wait with that piece until fall-winter!
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#36 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:11 am

Installed the Filter-king with a custom aluminum bracket (simple angled pice) and set to 2.2 to 2.3 psi, test-ran fine for 10 minutes no leaks. The car seemed to start quite alot easier than last few times (years :) )
Image

I could not squeeze the old nylon pipe onto the filter-king, the new nylon line from filter to carbs is a bit more elastic but the old pipe no way.
Image

Installed the plywood floor, the hardura and shut the boot and the pump is quiet enough (with 1/4 full tank). So far so good.

I will be looking for a quality fuel pressure regulator for trunk mount, plan to use the original fuel filter in the future. With this pump delivering approx 5.5 psi out of the box I guess pressure regulation is needed.

It should not be too hard to make your own system, Walbro/Protec (and more) have some low pressure submersible pumps (eg Protec at around GBP35-40 demon tweeks pricing).

Having said that I think the SNG pump is good value for money.
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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#37 Re: 3.8 in-tank fuel pump.

Post by trondvo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:28 am

Just wanted to add a regulator to the thread, this regulator is easy to find with the usual suspects and according to Malpassi it will regulate from 1.5 to 5 psi. It is also from the Filter King manufacturer malpassi.

I think this can be installed in the boot, inline with the pump without interfering much with the space needed for reserve wheel or to get the plywood boot floor in position. With this regulator I could put the AC filter back in place and supply it with correct pressure.

http://www.officinamalpassi.it/en/regul ... etail.html

Image

PS: of course if you use a "Filter King" filter you dont need this, as it is built-in.
61 OTS Black on Red, 62 FHC nuts & bolts resto on the way to OSG & Matador red.

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