Track rod ends despair.

[RogerM]

Is 10 pages a record for one single topic without deviation?
Roger

[mgcjag]

Its 11 now u posted......but I think this beats it and its better to look at viewtopic.php?t=1408

[mgcjag]

Hi all sorry to serurect this again but its being mentioned that with the 400mm dampers and the 115deg tre,s the only cars that have the binding issue are S2 2+2 ive looked back through the posts and cant find a fhc or ots owner that says they have it.....please only reply if u do......I have now reverted back on my S2 2+2 to the 406mm boge and the old stock 124deg tre,s (qr1178) and the tre,s can easily be fitted with the.suspension on full drop Regards .Steve

[mgcjag]

In reply to my own question.plenty of non 2+2 owners here with the issue http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1332767l11

[johnben]

Good work again Steve, it seems that the problem is with all Series 1 & 2 E Types whether they are OTS, FHC or 2+ 2.
It is interesting that our friends on the Jag-lover Forum back in 2010 came up with the measurement of 16" 407 mm as the size for the original Girlings whereby in the UK we seem to have settled on 15.75" 400mm.
I am still confused regarding the BOGE 26 258 0 at one extreme we have 400mm, then some at 406 mm and the other extreme (mine) which are 410 mm size, as no one else seems to have 410 mm I will take them off again and remeasure, obviously if the BOGE 26 258 00 are 400 mm then half our problem is solved but recent history draws me to the belief that I am being taken down the TRE route again where all is not as it seems.
This should not be seen as a criticism of SNG who out of all the suppliers and manufacturers are the only company to have come forward with any positive moves to resolve the situation, more it is my frustration that at what should have been a pleasant afternoon job many months ago of changing my TRE's on my beloved E Type has turned into this never ending saga. Lets hope that we do end up with a positive outcome this time.

John

[mgcjag]

Hi All........I can now confirm that one of the suppliers i mentioned in previous posts is SNG Barrets.....thay have placed an order to have new 35 deg(125deg) tre,s manufactured ,they are expecting delivery in time for the Stonliegh spares day....think its 23 march.....still waiting on tne manufacturer of the stainless ones....Steve

[johnben]

Well done SNG for listening to its customers, lets hope this is what we have been waiting for and well done Steve for all the work in keeping this thread going to reach a conclusion.

John

[mgcjag]

Just to add a bit more info to this trread....a few photos and spec of an origianal track rod end has just been added to the factory fit thread for S1...see page 15...it shows the original tre,s had a fully open angle of 120deg.... far more movement than many available today, however wider angle tre,s are available ...see previous posts.....Steve

[rfs1957]

Resuscitating a 2014 - 2015 thread that had already got to 108 posts, is this acceptable, or a record even ?!!

Especially as I even contributed to it 9 years ago ...........

I thought these pictures would throw some more light on the damper-length vs TRE angles issue.

I've had my car in a million pieces since 2018, after running it for about 15 years, but had changed the front shock absorbers in 2012 for a set of Boges sourced from SNGB under the C20011B reference, makers reference 26-258-0.



During reassembly, I could see that the Track Rod Ends that were already on the car (which I know were new in about 1990) were not going to meet with the steering-rack ends without putting some considerable pre-load on the steering rack mountings.





So I assumed - blithely, and without really examining the issue - that a new set of "wide-angle" TRE's from SNGB would solve the problem.

These are the new ones, where there's a good 10mm missing before the cones will engage.







So the new ones don't solve my problem, and - in a way - for two reasons.

One, whatever angle were available from the TRE's, the alignment is out - because the articulation available from the inboard ball-joints is insufficient.

And two, the new "wide-angle" TRE's are actually exactly the same as the ones that were fitted in 1990 !









So I think that the issue comes from the fact that the Boges that were supplied by SNGB are 410mm eye-to-eye, which would appear to be 10mm at least beyond the recognised limit of 400mm, if that is indeed the consensus we have come to on this thread.

So the question is, has anyone any direct experience of the "Girling" damper that's listed by SNGB in 2023, and can they confirm the length ?



https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#/UK ... f8b9f55ab1

Are there currently any alternatives, as in - ones that look right ?

PS - I also realise, therefore, that I had a most unconscionable pre-load on the rack-mounting rubbers, which was actually only made materially possible by the fact that - unbeknown to me - there were no fail-safe provisions whatsoever on the steering rack mountings, neither left nor right, so they had a lot more "give" available then they should have. Beat that for dangerous ..........

[mgcjag]

Hi Rory....strange that your old and new have the same angle....what is the measures angle....Steve

[rfs1957]

About 122°, at a stab - so they're the correct "wide-angle".

But my 1990 ones were correct too, they were sourced at a time when the right ones were available.

However, if the new ones were 130°, say, that wouldn't change the problem.

The issue is that with shock-absorbers that are beyond 400mm, the steering-rack geometry, and not the TRE's, cannot cope with full-droop.

This is presumably why - for a while, from what I've gleaned - people were making dampers 394mm (was it ?) long.

[dlgis]

Not sure this will help much but last year (2022) I fitted the Girling front dampers and track rod ends from SNGB and everything went together fine. I do recall speaking to someone at SNGB when ordering the Girlings for the rear asking for measurements as the big issue I had at the time was getting the rear ride height correct and the chap at SNGB was very helpful in taking measurements for me.

[rfs1957]

Thanks for those helpful replies, I’ve asked SNGB to confirm the eye to eye length of the Girlings.

It would be nice to put the front end to bed, and I had very high hopes when the new TRE’s turned up.

Should have looked more closely as to why I thought I « needed them »

[rfs1957]

Girlings were announced at 400mm, but delivered at 415mm.

Obviously even more out of spec than the 2012 Boge's that were 410 ...............

I've informed SNGB about the issue.

[rfs1957]

Despair is the right word.

I got a new "short" set of Girlings from SNGB, and they're still too long once they're under droop-load.

That nuance matters.

Their lower rubbers deform so easily on full droop that there's another 5mm lost.

I gave up and now have a pair of GAZ - not driven them yet, but look vastly better made and appear to have a good press.

You can get them on the 'phone, they answer emails, and the size is the promised 390mm, and it's maintained under full droop.