Track rod ends despair.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:51 pm

Not sure if you are surprised or just making it clear for everyone?

If dampers are too long, simple geometry tells you the angles will inevitably be wrong either end of the rod. If the joints are being articulated beyond their design limit as here at each end, you must expect damage and - in this safety-critical system - an element of risk.

I take all sorts of risks regularly, but driving with duff steering on any car, let alone a fast valuable one, is not something I would condone, much less advise. As is so often the case (possibly even a majority of cases???) complaints about parts not fitting are caused by something else being out of whack on 40-50 year old cars.

Pete

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:16 pm

"Not sure if you are surprised or just making it clear for everyone?"

Neither, Christopher suggested the following "At 410mm you might just be ok but it is essential to check visually that there is still clearance between the neck of each ball and the relevant housing when at full extension" and I was just sharing the outcome.

John

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:23 pm

One would like to think that with Jaguars new commitment to Heritage that they will look at just this sort of thing. My own endeavours resulted in me fitting the gold SNG TREs and Konis . There is some stress on the ends but as Koni pointed out to me they have sold thousands without problem, lets hope they are right

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:31 pm

andrewh wrote:One would like to think that with Jaguars new commitment to Heritage that they will look at just this sort of thing.

They are surveying left right and center to see what owners want. I think UK/Europe have been done. The North American Survey is open until the end of September and this is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/oky477b

Pete

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:58 pm

Hi Heuer

Another one for your list centre bolt to centre bolt, email from Spax: Spax G422 - Front Damper Part Code: Open length 407.70mm

OEM Girling = 400mm - 15.75" (verified by Jaguar)
GAZ = 412mm or 424mm or 430mm (depending who measured them!)
Boge = 403mm or 410mm (depending who measured them!)
Koni = 407mm
Spax = 407.7mm

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:04 pm

Hi Andrew

As it seems only E Types have the problem I wonder how many they have actually sold for E Types? "There is some stress on the ends but as Koni pointed out to me they have sold thousands without problem, lets hope they are right"

John

1967 Ser 1 2+2

rfs1957 · Post by **rfs1957** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:42 pm

Boges, brand new about 2000 miles ago, wheels off the ground, centre to centre length 410mm.

And its the last 10mm that shifts the steering rack rubbers southbound.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:40 pm

rfs1957 wrote:And its the last 10mm that shifts the steering rack rubbers southbound.

The irony is that the OEM fronts are very chunky and well built. I've got two sets here that are cosmetically scruffy but short of putting them on a suspension dynamometer seem perfectly OK. They offer at least as much damping as a pair of modern hardly-used slimmer replacements I bought at Stoneleigh some years ago.

My guess is that very many correct-length, functionally good and safe front dampers are downgraded to dangerous-length functionally worse (stiffer or weaker or less durable) replacements, for purely appearance's sake. Same goes for lots of areas on these cars.

Anyone fancy cornering the futures market for used OEM dampers? :-)

Pete

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:43 am

Heuer wrote:We could really help ourselves by compiling a library of the various shock extended (centre bolt to centre bolt) lengths. So far we seem to have:

OEM Girling = 400mm - 15.75" (verified by Jaguar)
GAZ = 412mm or 424mm or 430mm (depending who measured them!)
Boge = 403mm or 410mm (depending who measured them!)
Koni = 407mm
Spax = no data

SPAX Krypton Gas 405mm
Boge 400mm definitely. These came from DM as C20011*B amd with paint would look a lot like the originals.

I have GAZ adjustbable on my 3.8 and Koni's on my S1.5; will measure if and when I can.

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:49 pm

Hi Andrew,
Forgive me for laboring the point but when you measured your Boge's was one end unattached as I am sure you are aware that if in situ the TRE could be taking some of the load. If they were taken fully open would it be possible to provide any numbers on the casing as I would be interested in tracking a pair down.

John

Boge 400mm definitely. These came from DM as C20011*B amd with paint would look a lot like the originals.

1967 Ser 1 2 + 2

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:07 pm

OEM Girling = 400mm - 15.75" (verified by Jaguar)
GAZ = 403mm or 412mm or 424mm or 430mm (depending who measured them!)
GAZ for SNGB = 390mm
Boge 26-258-0 = 400mm (Andrew)
Boge 26-258-00 = 410mm (John)
Koni = 407mm
Koni 82-1232 - dated 1971 = 400mm (Andrew)
Spax G422 = 407.7mm (confirmed by Spax)
Spax Krypton Gas G422 = 405mm (Andrew)
Armstrong #2565 1080 9 DB 41 064 = 408mm (Geoff)

Keep 'em coming although we could do with OEM part numbers as well.

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:44 pm

All measurements were made on new shocks as yet to be installed on the car. I'm pretty sure the measurements are accurate within 1 to 2mm.

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:20 am

OK the Boge shocks I referred to have 26-258-0 on the box.

I have measured a set of older Konis we have; they are exactly 400mm. The number on them is 82-1232 and they seem to be date stamped 9-71.

The Spax Kryptons are G422's from XK's.

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:42 am

OK the Boge shocks I referred to have 26-258-0 on the box.

Thanks for that Andrew, but that is a mystery, as I said before I am running with Boge(26-258-00) (33 1700 310 281) Length 440 mm (middle of bolt to middle of bolt 410 mm)

John

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:39 pm

At the risk of adding more confusion on the Gaz shocks, I just measured mine as the car is up in the air on the lift. 403mm between bolt centres so rather shorter than the other Gaz units listed above. Purchased from SNGB about 4 years ago.

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:44 pm

Any part or product ID John?

johnben · Post by **johnben** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:52 pm

kingzetts wrote:At the risk of adding more confusion on the Gaz shocks, I just measured mine as the car is up in the air on the lift. 403mm between bolt centres so rather shorter than the other Gaz units listed above. Purchased from SNGB about 4 years ago.

John

Does 'up on the ramps' mean both ends of the shocks were attached? if so perhaps the track rod ends could be taking some of the load preventing the shocks from fully opening.
John
1967 Ser 1 2 + 2

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:08 pm

David/John,
I will check both points over the weekend and advise.

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:11 pm

Checked the shock length (Gaz adjustables) with one end detached and the shock extended as far as it would go. Still measured 403mm between bolt centres.

Haven't identified part numbers yet. Will try again later.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:52 am

Some dampers have a kind of recoil spring to act as a full extension bump stop. No idea about Gaz, but they can be quite firm springs, since they are meant to cushion a fair chunk of unsprung mass.

I could envisage a scenario where a damper was held 'hard extended' by the tension of the TB, at a length a few millimetres beyond the free or hand-pulled length (assuming sufficient track rod end and steering rack compliance). Just a thought. People with motorbikes will recognise a similar setup on most modern telescopic forks which can usually be pulled out a bit further even with the front wheel off the ground.

Pete

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
	Hide post links

The 'E' Type Forum

Track rod ends despair.

#21

#22

#23

#24

#25

#26

#27

#28

#29

#30

#31

#32

#33

#34

#35

#36

#37

#38

#39

#40