Repairing a starter Motor solenoid ?
#1 Repairing a starter Motor solenoid ?
I do have a defective starter Motor solenoid, or so it seems.
When I connect the Case to ground, and apply 12 V from a battery to the thin wire which has the large spade connector on one end, it clicks.
When I connect the Case to ground, and apply 12 V to the Single Bolt on the side of the Motor (where the solenoid copper "Bridge" goes to normally), then the Motor turns. It achieves a draw of about 50 Amps.
Now, I could never manage the solenoid to connect the 2 thick bolts on it's rear end, whatever I tried.
I even measured it all with a Voltmeter- and it gives about 1 Volt through / over, but not 12.
Next Problem: the solenoid is part no. 76706a, which seems to be sold old worldwide, and it is of the "forged-close" type - there are no screws, you Cannot easily Open them (I bet I can I do own a large Hammer !).
Now, seriously:
a) has anyone ever tried to Open this type ? I think I might grind the folded-over Metal Ridge of, and then take the insert out and have a look. Who cares, it's a dead Unit "as is" anyway.
b) to close it afterwards, I could simply weld a ring on the rear end.
I tried to find a spare, but had no luck yet.
Ideas ?
Thanks !
Carsten
When I connect the Case to ground, and apply 12 V from a battery to the thin wire which has the large spade connector on one end, it clicks.
When I connect the Case to ground, and apply 12 V to the Single Bolt on the side of the Motor (where the solenoid copper "Bridge" goes to normally), then the Motor turns. It achieves a draw of about 50 Amps.
Now, I could never manage the solenoid to connect the 2 thick bolts on it's rear end, whatever I tried.
I even measured it all with a Voltmeter- and it gives about 1 Volt through / over, but not 12.
Next Problem: the solenoid is part no. 76706a, which seems to be sold old worldwide, and it is of the "forged-close" type - there are no screws, you Cannot easily Open them (I bet I can I do own a large Hammer !).
Now, seriously:
a) has anyone ever tried to Open this type ? I think I might grind the folded-over Metal Ridge of, and then take the insert out and have a look. Who cares, it's a dead Unit "as is" anyway.
b) to close it afterwards, I could simply weld a ring on the rear end.
I tried to find a spare, but had no luck yet.
Ideas ?
Thanks !
Carsten
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#2
Hm. Some afterthoughts gave me the idea that I did not try one thing:
Put the +12v on the Post on the "Bridge" on the end of the Motor, where the spade connector sits on as well. It is an Isolated Post, so I feel + 12v go there. From there the solenoid thick wire goes to the solenoid. And from there there's the copper Bridge to the Motor Itself.
And a separate wire comes out of the loom, has a spade connector, and this Engages the CLICK. This Routes the 12v through the solenoid copper internal Bridge.
Will try tomorrow.
I just did not get it that I have to have 2x 12v connections.
Will get back.
Oh, and if that fails I already have an idea how to Open the solenoid : I can us the angle grinder, and cut a short divider into the rolled- over edge, so that it becomes a 1cm Tab-cut-Tab-cut and so on Affair, and then use pliers to bend the Tabs outwords, one by one. Then, after a repair, I can Hammer them back Home so They will clamp. If needed, a blob - weld Spot maybe needed, but I Don't think so really.?
We shall see. This Race is not yet over !
Carsten
Put the +12v on the Post on the "Bridge" on the end of the Motor, where the spade connector sits on as well. It is an Isolated Post, so I feel + 12v go there. From there the solenoid thick wire goes to the solenoid. And from there there's the copper Bridge to the Motor Itself.
And a separate wire comes out of the loom, has a spade connector, and this Engages the CLICK. This Routes the 12v through the solenoid copper internal Bridge.
Will try tomorrow.
I just did not get it that I have to have 2x 12v connections.
Will get back.
Oh, and if that fails I already have an idea how to Open the solenoid : I can us the angle grinder, and cut a short divider into the rolled- over edge, so that it becomes a 1cm Tab-cut-Tab-cut and so on Affair, and then use pliers to bend the Tabs outwords, one by one. Then, after a repair, I can Hammer them back Home so They will clamp. If needed, a blob - weld Spot maybe needed, but I Don't think so really.?
We shall see. This Race is not yet over !
Carsten
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#3
Is your starter motor pre-engaged, or is it an inertia type ? ( I cannot remember if your car is 3.8 ( inertia ) or 4.2 ( pre-engaged ) . If pre-engaged, you need 2 leads to test it - 1. to the solenoid which moves the pinion and which in turn closes the motor switch and 2. to the motor to provide current when the switch is closed by operation 1
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#4
It's a 4.2.
And as I wrote, I was simply toooooooo dumb yet.... But will try to improve :-)
Carsten
And as I wrote, I was simply toooooooo dumb yet.... But will try to improve :-)
Carsten
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#5
Carsten -
the 4.2 starter is a surprisingly complicated device which has a clever mechanism for when the teeth don't mesh first time. There is a very detailed description in the workshop manual and it will be worth going through that and checking the adjustment and current draws before fitting.
Once it is on it is a pain to remove so you want to make sure it is right!
Joe
the 4.2 starter is a surprisingly complicated device which has a clever mechanism for when the teeth don't mesh first time. There is a very detailed description in the workshop manual and it will be worth going through that and checking the adjustment and current draws before fitting.
Once it is on it is a pain to remove so you want to make sure it is right!
Joe
1963 3.8 OTS
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#6
It Works. With +12v on the stud, all Nuts tightended up, and a screwdriver as a Bridge for the solenoid 12v it worked a charm.
I did read and re-read the adjustment section, and will follow it. I mean it worked when I Took it out, but the small arrow on the Nut is already "adjusted" out of the "allowed" Area indicated above the Nut, so I will check it....
Oh, and I am on a 2+2, so maybe the longer Chassis and larger Centre Tunnel give more space ?
Carsten
I did read and re-read the adjustment section, and will follow it. I mean it worked when I Took it out, but the small arrow on the Nut is already "adjusted" out of the "allowed" Area indicated above the Nut, so I will check it....
Oh, and I am on a 2+2, so maybe the longer Chassis and larger Centre Tunnel give more space ?
Carsten
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#7
Almost everything forward of the bulkhead is the same for the 2+2. The starter motor is forward of the bulkhead. You will not have it any easier than Joe, although the 3.8s had a Bendix inertia drive starter.
Pete
Pete
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas
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#8
Carsten : I know you are handy with welding etc, so you may find it useful to make a device which makes undoing the starter motor much easier . Mine have the two bolts connected by a steel rod running in an arc so as to clear the periphery of the bulge in the bellhousing . You just weld the curved rod at each end to the starter motor bolts so that they become, effectively, captive bolts . The nuts at the front end of the flange of the motor can then easily be done up or undone because the bolts cannot turn, and you can take the motor off without having to remove the central console
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#9
Hi Christopher,
From Memory only - isn't the starter screwed into the gearbox flange, and sits parallel to the engine, below the carbs or the exhaust ?
But, are there no threads in the gearbox / bellhousing ? So there are screws plus Nuts ? This explains what you mean - take out the console to get at the bolts which come from the back end of the car ?
Ok, I will make up a fixture plate for the starter. Or I go for a "bowded" 10 mm threaded Rod. Just a Curved Iron which carries both threads and they can't turn nor is there a need to Feed them in there by hand.
I Always wondered why no manufacturer ever Managed to find a proper and easy Place for the starter Motor.... Saab maybe with their front Clutch System.
Carsten
From Memory only - isn't the starter screwed into the gearbox flange, and sits parallel to the engine, below the carbs or the exhaust ?
But, are there no threads in the gearbox / bellhousing ? So there are screws plus Nuts ? This explains what you mean - take out the console to get at the bolts which come from the back end of the car ?
Ok, I will make up a fixture plate for the starter. Or I go for a "bowded" 10 mm threaded Rod. Just a Curved Iron which carries both threads and they can't turn nor is there a need to Feed them in there by hand.
I Always wondered why no manufacturer ever Managed to find a proper and easy Place for the starter Motor.... Saab maybe with their front Clutch System.
Carsten
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#10
The starter is in the position you describe, but it uses two of the bellhousing bolts with nuts on the front end to secure it
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#11
Hi Cristopher,
Today I found that at least in my case the starter motor housing has threads. It Is put into a bulge in the bellhousing. There are 2 small spacers, then the intermediate plate, and the the starter motor itself.
I can of course drill the threads out and put some bolts from behind through the bellhousing holes and use nuts, but the basic function - having to turn a nut Or a Bolt - stays the same.
And with the threads in the Starter Motor housing There Is No need to Counter / Secure bolts on the other (painful) side, so I think I" ll Mount it "as is".
Carsten
Today I found that at least in my case the starter motor housing has threads. It Is put into a bulge in the bellhousing. There are 2 small spacers, then the intermediate plate, and the the starter motor itself.
I can of course drill the threads out and put some bolts from behind through the bellhousing holes and use nuts, but the basic function - having to turn a nut Or a Bolt - stays the same.
And with the threads in the Starter Motor housing There Is No need to Counter / Secure bolts on the other (painful) side, so I think I" ll Mount it "as is".
Carsten
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