Battery Starter pack

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mark10337
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#1 Battery Starter pack

Post by mark10337 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:36 pm

I had one of these mini battery booster packs to jump start the eType in case of a flat battery. The inevitable happened, I had a very flat battery after leaving the lights on all day - attached the battery starter and ... zip. It failed. It was rated at 16.8A with a peak of 800A.

Subsequent testing found the battery pack had circuit had blown. Has anyone a recommendation for one? What power rating should be able to handle the eTypes requirements?
-Mark

1969 Series 2 OTS, Regency Red
'Life's to short to drive a boring car'

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JagWaugh
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#2 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by JagWaugh » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:28 am

Have a look in the Jumbo, Coop, Migros etc. Mine is from one of them, I've had it for about 15 years, it is about 4x6x8", so a larget than the iphone sized ones, but not like a piece of luggage as the ones with air compressor, lights, radio, and a marching band.

Hopefully the newer ones won't have completely taken over the market. I've looked at them a few times and thought "There is no way those connectors are going to be safe at the current they claim".

Ktipp did a test on some of them about a year ago, only a couple of them actually worked without catching fire iirc.

Yes, some of the time all it needs is a little bit of energy, just enough to bring the coil voltage up enough to get a spark, but for a dead flat battery and possibly an electrical fault, I'd go with a more robust unit.

Andrew

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abowie
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#3 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by abowie » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:54 am

FWIW I agree with Andrew on this one. I think they are at best too good to be true and at worst akin to a bomb.

If they were any good they'd already be fitted to every modern car in place of a normal battery.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
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#4 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by christopher storey » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:35 am

I had one of them which was effectively a motorcycle battery pack, but it died after only 2 years. I then bought ( sterling £85) a mains powered 12/24v charger with a c.200 amp starter facility , which has been really splendid . It will not start an E from dead flat battery conditions, but say 20 minutes of fast charge at about 15 amps ( it is automatic ) will bring the battery up to where it should start used with the 200 amp facility in 3 to 5 second bursts on the starter .

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Heuer
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#5 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by Heuer » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:35 am

I have a couple of these lithium jump start battery packs and they work well. Never tried to start a car from a totally flat battery but they work on a battery that cannot quite crank the engine. Trouble is you need to keep them charged, they require topping up every three months, so unless you are really well organised you could still be stranded. Best and cheapest solution is to install a warning buzzer: http://www.myetype.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3551
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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#6 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by mark10337 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:04 am

Yes, agree and the warning buzzer upgrade has since been performed ;-)

David, I am interested in what amperage your unit has? They can also be trickle charged from 12v, so just a cigarette lighter socket in the boot, or a storage area in the engine bay / by the glove box could help the less organised.
-Mark

1969 Series 2 OTS, Regency Red
'Life's to short to drive a boring car'

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#7 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by JagWaugh » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:49 am

Mark,

I think the best combination is a Ctek trickle charger and a decent booster pack.

Wire the Ctek quick connector permanently to the battery at the posts and plug it in when parked at home. The Ctek will keep your battery safe and sound even over the coldest of winters, the kit comes with two lead sets, one for permanent connection, and another with clips, so you can remove the battery and use the clips over the winter. If you have a battery disconnect switch (a good idea) connect the Ctek so that it will still charge if the battery has been isolated.

The booster pack will help when you've left the lights or such on.

If you find that you end up using the booster without having left something on, or that the Ctek isn't keeping the battery fully charged you have an electrical fault, and that needs investigation.

See: www.ctek.com , widely available here.

We have a battery load tester, a hygrometer, a high current booster/charger, a normal charger. These mostly sit unused collecting dust in the corner of the shop, our normal battery diagnostic test is to leave a suspect battery on the Ctek recover cycle overnight and look at the LEDs the next morning. In 4 years the Ctek has always been correct about battery health.

As much as I like traditional tools and methods, I am a fan of the Ctek.

As a time served electrician I am more than capable of testing an electrical system/battery with a Voltmeter, an Ammeter, a dummy load, a timer and a bit of math.

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Heuer
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#8 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by Heuer » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:36 am

Mine are branded 'Floureon' and look the same as this one: http://tinyurl.com/zrtzzxt rated at 68,800maH There are lots of them out there (probably from the same factory and no or different brand names) with widely differing capacities so just get the largest you can find at a sensible price.
David Jones
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#9 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by alfazagato » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:41 am

I have an American product called Battery Saver which has a trickle charge facility but also a system within it for discharging the battery and then giving it an almighty 50Amp charge. This, I am told, removes the sulphates from the plates and allows more area to be in contact with the acid thus revivifying the battery. So far I am up to seven years life on a battery using this system. They also make a hand held engine starter unit which will start a Kenworthy truck......once!

Stuart
Series 1.5 FHC

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PeterCrespin
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#10 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by PeterCrespin » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:01 pm

Heuer wrote:....rated at 68,800maH....
Sixty-eight point eight thousand! Sounds much more impressive than 69 Amp hours. Reminds me of 1960s French francs, when people would still talk about their salary or house price in old francs (100 x higher) for some time after the new ones came in...
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 79 S2 XJ12L; 97 XJ6L

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Mark Gordon
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#11 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by Mark Gordon » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:15 pm

Stuart, like you, I have a battery maintainer, Battery Tender Plus, that I keep attached to my battery when I'm not going to use the car for more than a day or so. My Deka brand battery was in the car when I bought it 8 1/2 years ago (the date codes were not peeled off when I got the car, so I have no idea how old it really is) and it maintains voltage with no problems in spite of being completely discharged several times a few years ago as my Lucas alternator and external regulator were dying. I recently went on a 1200 mile, four day trip with no Battery Tender maintenance and when I got home, the static voltage read 13 V. Rather than mess with a battery starter pack, I just carry a set of jumper cables in case I need an emergency boost to get me started for a trip to buy a new battery.
Last edited by Mark Gordon on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark

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#12 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by mark10337 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:57 pm

This was never really about trickle charging or maintaining a battery. I drive the car most days, summer and winter, wind and rain, sleet and snow. Its just one of those things to carry as essential equipment. Instead of jumper leads to try and get you started - for which you need to find another obliging motorist (ever decreasing as they worry about their own electronics etc.), I wanted something that could get me out of bother.

Back to the original question, what is the amperage necessary to crank these starter motor beasts. Looking at the data in the Haynes manual gives the M 45 G with a 4.2 litre.
Lock torque - 22.6 lbs. f. ft with 465 amps at 7.6 volts
Torque at 1000 rpm - 9.6 lbs. f. ft with 240 amps at 9.7 volts
Light running current - 70 amps at 5,800 - 6,500 rpm

which (unsurprisingly) seems a very heavy amperage requirement. Fortunately, I have fitted the PowerLite RAC303 supplied by Rob Beere Racing. This has a rating of 1.00 Kilowatt at 12V (Mr Ohms law giving an amperage of 83.3).

The question then is how is the calculation made to arrive at the amperage necessary for a batter booster to ensure a couple of start attempts.


Alternatively the other way to look at it, is the original battery is a Lucas FRV11/7A (57 Ah capacity).
So a booster back should just meet this specification.
-Mark

1969 Series 2 OTS, Regency Red
'Life's to short to drive a boring car'

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#13 Re: Battery Starter pack

Post by Bokako » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:43 am

I apologize for bumping this old topic, but I have done quite a bit of research on this, so I want to share my experience.
The reason why using a portable jump start battery pack to "jump start" a vehicle with LiPo4 battery https://wheelstips.com/best-jump-starter is due to its risk of a "thermal runaway". Normal sealed batteries from my understanding can also experience thermal runaways but not nearly as much. Why, I'm not entirely sure.

One thing to keep in mind for those who are considering buying these portable jump starters is the storage temperature. Be sure to keep to the temp readings in the fine print. A portable battery charger with an internal LiFePO4 battery are safer especially how hot cars can get in the summer. From what I've read, Lithium-ion/Li-Po batteries go into thermal runaway at ~140ºF whereas LiFePO4 are safe until ~420ºF.

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