Dreaded Heater Pipes bother? Not Bother? Yes or No.

[politeperson]

I am at this stage with my S2 FHC.

I have no indication that my dash pipes leaking or are corroded. I am thinking of preventative mechanics.

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So, I have the engine and box out, the dash in and a lovely set of stainless steel pipes and a new heater valve ready to fit. I have owned this SNG set for 6 months now.

I also have control of an 11 year old, a 9 year old and a 7 year old with skinny arms. Well skinnier than mine anyway.

Drilling out the old pipes will take a couple of minutes.

However, the question is does this action effectively write the whole car off until I painfully remove the hole dash assembly?

Can I get the old pipes though the hole behind the centre fuse board that hinges down?

Can I physically put the new pipes in?

Am I being a woose and should just get on with it while I have the opportunity.

It is a matter of weighing up the probabilities.

Pain now?

Pain later this summer on the side of the French Auto Route?

No pain-as my 1969 pipes are OK.

Opinions from the experienced and wise please. Opinions from those that have failed, greatly appreciated.

[golfnut324]

It looks to me like your car is in really good shape. Having gone down this road (I needed a new clutch and ended up with a full nut and bolt restore) if I were you I would pull all of the hoses off, check for signs of serious corrosion and if fairly clean put in new hoses and keep on going. It may be that the coolant has been kept fresh thus helping to prevent corrosion? You could even invest in an inexpensive usb type of bore scope that works off of your telephone to have a peek into the pipes.

The dash fascia will have to come out. You can remove and replace the pipes with the windshield in place but I can't imagine doing so without removing the wiper rack though I think there are those who have done so.

And while you're at it, maybe a new wiring harness? freshen up the interior? pull the fuel tank and check for corrosion? rebuild the IRS?......you get the idea.

[christopher storey]

It is a major operation to change the pipes. It requires the whole dash assembly and the wiper apparatus including the rack to be removed, and even then it is a stinker of a job . Having the engine out really doesn' t affect it at all, so you should not feel under compulsion to do it just because you have the engine out. Unless there is evidence that the existing pipes are leaking , I would put it off until you have a need to remove the dash assembly. If, however, the pipes are leaking , then it is important to put a stop to this a.s.a.p because in time the leakage will cause catastrophic rotting to the bulkhead at the point where 3 seams meet half way up it

[politeperson]

Thanks chaps, perhaps I shall give it a miss until I get a problem.

I suppose in an emergency situation I could just bypass the heater.

James

[Moeregaard]

Think of replacing the pipes as insurance. When the original items fail, they will most likely develop pinhole leaks that will remain undetected for a period of time. It's been 25 years now, so my memories are a little foggy, but when I restored my '65 FHC, I believe I was able to get the pipes in with the wiper gear in place. With the engine out you have unlimited access to the firewall, making it much easier to pop-rivet the pipes' retaining plates. It's not a pleasant job, but in my view the peace of mind it gives is well worth the trouble.

[mark10337]

It's much easier to do the riveting with the engine out as there is more angle to get the rivet gun aligned on the holes of the D washers.

As for the interior. Dashboard top needs to be off. wiper rack arm out - although possible with it in place.

Or, clean out existing pipes and check for leaks under pressure. bore scope is a good suggestion.

[PeterCrespin]

I don't know of a borescope that would go through such a tight bend at each end yo examine the central run. Engine out is easier as you can face the bulkhead with total two-handed access and pull the pipes fully home while you fix them, by using string through the pipe and around your back. Anyone nervous about their condition could run external hose and bypass the pipes until it was convenient to renew them.

[Nigel GT]

I was able to change the heater pipes with the wiper rack in situ, you need the top dash panel removed, feed in pipes from LH side aperture, before removing old pipes feed some thin flexible wire ( or string use a airline to blow it through the pipe) through each pipe with plenty of length hanging out, so when removing the old pipe the wire is still hanging out of the bulkhead holes, cut the wire feed through new pipe twist and solder wire together. Maneuver the new pipe to rough position and use the ends of the wire to pull it through the bulkhead holes. Best to do it now with the engine out so you have access to pop rivet the mounting plates.

Good luck
Nigel

[politeperson]

Well, Nigel,

That is exactly how I imagined it might be done.

So it is possible then.

Thanks

[1954Etype]

Definately. Did it last week on a s1 4.2.

[politeperson]

Right.

Thats it.

I am doing it then.

[golfnut324]

Let's us know how you get along and please document exactly how you do it. I'd like to keep that info on file for the future. Not that I will ever have to mess with the ss pipes in there now but you never know if I might do another restore?

Thanks!

[politeperson]

Well,

I started by 6pm, by 8pm they were out.

I removed the dash top and glove box.

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This revealed 2 hand sized apertures. I removed the wiper spindle to make the LHS hole a little larger.

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The top two short pipes are easy to take out and I would imagine, easy to refit.

My heater valve was welded onto its pipe, I cut the pipe with a hack saw to release it.

The long bottom pipe lies in the Mariana Trench. Even removing the heater box wont help access.

I just needs patience.

I drilled a hole in the RHS of this pipe and tied in string, prior to tapping it through the bulkhead lightly with a hammer.

If you can get your hand through the LHS wiper spindle hole, you can touch the pipe at the bottom of the trench.

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I then had to enlist the help of my 11 year old who slid it out through the center hole where the flasher unit lives. Eventually.

He had to waggle it around the gearbox support obstruction in the middle of the dash void.

So I can now refinish that area of the bulkhead prior to refitting the new pipes.

Well worth it, one of those jobs easier to understand if you just get on with it maybe.

Looking at the condition of the pipes I removed, they could have failed at anytime I think.

[mark10337]

try to get the angles and "bend" correct on the pipes before refitting them - assuming of course the originals didn't get distorted when removing. I had to tweak the vacuum pipe a couple of times before it would fit easily.

[politeperson]

Thanks, yes I will check them prior.

I am taking the opportunity to refinish this area of the bulkhead before the new ones go in.

I didnt pull the old ones very hard to remove them, so I have no reason to think they are distorted.

I am leaving the vacuum pipe insitu, as I see no reason to intefere with it.

I am also refinishing the heater box ,as I had previously finished it the wrong shade of black.

As with most things on this car it is all more a matter if "fitting" as opposed to restoration. The salts has been kept at bay on this one. Even on parts where the factory finish has dropped off, the exposed steel is still shiny silver. Very unusual in my experience of old cars.

[politeperson]

Touching the Void, the next Episode

I refinished the bulkhead area and the area below the heater box.

This involved lots of de-greasing, flatting and masking.

The lower pipe went in through the center bulkhead aperture, across the top of the heater duct, down below the gearbox centre support bracket and the popped out the two holes.

Not.

2 and a half hours of messing around and the ends popped out o the bulkhead. This is the one marked C on the plan below. You can see C is long, It has to go over the square hole on the RHS of the picture from the dash center. Then it has to go below the support behind the center gearbox bracket before going into position.

One problem was the two heater control cables were in the way. These were removed.

The next problem was, that I had it in my head that the pipe had to be manoeuvred across to a position on the extreme left hand side of the bulkhead void below the heater duct, than back across.

It doesn't.

It has to be manoeuvred across to a position on the extreme left hand side of the bulkhead void ABOVE the heater duct, than back across, to the RHS below the center gearbox support bracket. It should then be just about low enough. However, in my case-

It was fouled by the lower vacuum pipe which I had left in-situ.

I had not removed the lower vacuum pipe. This is marked "B" on the plan below that I pinched. I have no Pipe A as I haven't fitted on as part of my LHD/RHD conversion I have vacuum tube running around the frames.

So I undrilled "B" at the center end only, pulled it up out the way, fitted the new lower water pipe then attempted the re fix the vacuum pipe.

By the way, I say "I", of course I did have my son helping, his skinny arms could get onto the pipes inside the void.

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"B" would then only pop into its hole if "C" was bent down out the way, as they kin' well overlap!

It would appear Jaguar started off with the heater pipes, then built the whole car around them!

Never mind, done now.

The top pipes look like a positive walk in the park to fit in comparison with the lower ones.

Next time I do it I think It would be much quicker, now I have the knowledge.

[golfnut324]

Nice! "Next time" try another fun job, like R&R the fuel tank. Congrats.

[Vegard]

On a side note. Unless you're looking to be 100% original, wouldn't it make sense to get the water out of the dash once for all? Why not fit the pipes/hoses in the engine compartment?

I cannot fathom why they did it this way. Six bulkhead holes. Could've been zero...

[politeperson]

Yes, It was always an option but it is now done.

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[Vegard]

Maybe this is sacrilege, but I ended up like this...,,



The pipe is from a BL car, so aaaaalmost in family :)