Crayon Writing

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Welsh62fhc
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#1 Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Hi Folks ... whilst stripping my 1962 FHC down I have found these crayon marks. On one of the bulkhead blanking plates on the slope below the main bulkhead is has the number 4168, in blue crayon. Then under the dashboard it has 4329 and is signed and undelined by Bob !! in red crayon.

Anyone else found these on the cars, can anyone put an explination on them because non match my body number. Another guy removed his leather off his 65 FHC and a woman called Carol had signed the back of the leather. One suggestion is it may have been the Jaguar employee's identity number ?

Thanks Gary

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Durango2k
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#2 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Durango2k » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:57 pm

Sorry I cannot be more helpful but it reminds me of TopGear, and the TVR „paintings“ in the boot.

Carsten
Jag E '66 S1 2+2, Citroen DS 23 Pallas iE, Citroen SM 3.0, Concept Centaur MK1, Citroen 11 BL '54, Sinclair C5, Velosolex

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chrisfell
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#3 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by chrisfell » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:06 am

Crayon markings inside body panels were to identify panels with a chassis. They are the body number. If you have more than one number, the parts may have come from more than one car.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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Welsh62fhc
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#4 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 pm

My car is totally original, never taken apart until now ... so your theory is not right Thanks

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Heuer
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#5 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Heuer » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:05 pm

As Chris says, they are body numbers scrawled in many places on the car to ensure fitted parts were kept together - body, frames, bonnet, doors, trim etc. e.g:
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If they are different to the body number of your car then those parts were either replaced during remedial work on the production line or they come off a different car. My guess is the former. What body number is your car?
David Jones
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Welsh62fhc
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#6 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am

I find it strange to see a crayon number exposed like the one shown above, behind the bottle on the bulkhead. Jaguar Cars would not allow any car out with a crayon marks exposed. I think this is fake added by a later owner, how could a salesman of the day try to explain why the car had a number in crayon so visible.

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MarkRado
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#7 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by MarkRado » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:26 am

Unfortunately no fake, see Haddock et al. Understandable when you look at the way Etypes were manufactured, I have not yet seen a number on a bonnet though
Mark
1963 OTS 880436 - since 1988

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Heuer
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#8 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Heuer » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:56 am

Welsh62fhc wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am
I think this is fake added by a later owner, how could a salesman of the day try to explain why the car had a number in crayon so visible.
Before making such authoritative statements maybe you should do considerably more research into the practices at Jaguar and the social norms of the day. :roll:
MarkRado wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:26 am
I have not yet seen a number on a bonnet though
They did not need to write the number on the bonnet as it was already stamped as such.
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David Jones
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#9 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by MarkRado » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:11 pm

Thank you David, shame on me :doh: . Even worse, my original bonnet is long gone, so out with the punch numbers...
Mark
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#10 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:27 pm

Heuer wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:56 am
Welsh62fhc wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am
I think this is fake added by a later owner, how could a salesman of the day try to explain why the car had a number in crayon so visible.
Before making such authoritative statements maybe you should do considerably more research into the practices at Jaguar and the social norms of the day. :roll:
MarkRado wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:26 am
I have not yet seen a number on a bonnet though
They did not need to write the number on the bonnet as it was already stamped as such.
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Wow that's me told !!!

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#11 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Series1 Stu » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:53 pm

Hi Gary

You sort of invited that by challenging one of the world's authorities on E Types. Years of experience and patient research makes David a highly respected doyen of things E Type.

It's a good job we're all civilised here. :drinkingcheers:
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

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Philk
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#12 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Philk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:55 am

A further quick question, was the body number on the bonnet support brace for all S1 cars or just up to a certain point in time? I've not been able to find any confirmation on this in the normal reference works.
Phil
1964 S1 3.8 OTS

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#13 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Heuer » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:27 am

We don't have enough data to know when the practice changed. Each bonnet was fettled to fit a specific body and after painting was the last thing to be attached to the completed car so some method was required to make sure they were not mixed up. At first the cars (the photo is of Paul Brown's early FHC) had the number stamped on the brace but later cars do not have it suggesting the Factory came up with a more efficient (i.e. cheaper!) way of doing it. Any information would be appreciated. The number is difficult to make out on the bonnet brace and not many people know about it is there so don't look for it!
David Jones
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Philk
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#14 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Philk » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:26 pm

Heuer wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:27 am
We don't have enough data to know when the practice changed. Each bonnet was fettled to fit a specific body and after painting was the last thing to be attached to the completed car so some method was required to make sure they were not mixed up. At first the cars (the photo is of Paul Brown's early FHC) had the number stamped on the brace but later cars do not have it suggesting the Factory came up with a more efficient (i.e. cheaper!) way of doing it. Any information would be appreciated. The number is difficult to make out on the bonnet brace and not many people know about it is there so don't look for it!
Hi David

Many thanks for the prompt response. May be we can canvas the forum as to whether anybody has a 1962 car with an original one which matches their body number. If so, does someone then have a 1963 car with one.... and so on. We may then be able to roughly pin down the changeover point if we have several citing specific months.
Phil
1964 S1 3.8 OTS

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#15 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by christopher storey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:57 pm

The problem, Phil , is worsened by the fact that there were many more bonnets made than cars , for the simple reason that they were very vulnerable to accident damage and needed replacement. I imagine that none of these replacements would ever have had a number stamped on them

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#16 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:01 pm

Series1 Stu wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:53 pm
Hi Gary

You sort of invited that by challenging one of the world's authorities on E Types. Years of experience and patient research makes David a highly respected doyen of things E Type.

It's a good job we're all civilised here. :drinkingcheers:
Hi Stu ... I'm from Yorkshire and wasn't affended

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Heuer
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#17 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Heuer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:53 am

Harold Lang sent me this:
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Shows they did crayon the body number on the bonnet.
David Jones
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#18 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Welsh62fhc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Hi Folks

Two more crayon markings on my car, '4285' rear of glovebox which matches my body number, then 'REY 09' behind speedo

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Jeremy
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#19 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by Jeremy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Looks like RED 09 to me....
Jeremy
1967 S1 4.2 FHC

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#20 Re: Crayon Writing

Post by MarkRado » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 pm

From my dashboard (on left and right, but not on centre panel)
7122 = body number;
blk= black? heritage certificate says trim colour red
03 = maybe worker' s signature?
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Mark
1963 OTS 880436 - since 1988

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