123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Talk about the E-Type Series 1
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jagwit
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#1 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:25 pm

Has anyone tried this? SNG 123 BT dissy

Can one actually program the timing curve yourself or does it only offer a choice from pre-programmed curves?
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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juicerider
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#2 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by juicerider » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:42 pm

Yeah I’ve got one. You can program the exact curve you want including the vacuumed advance. You can also adjust the timing on the run. A great feature to help get it rite. You have an app that gives you a dashboard with rpm, ignition timings, vacuumed, engine temp, volts, coil current and gps speed. A very useful tool. You can also imobalise the ignition with the app too.

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#3 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:23 pm

I found the user manual and even the vacuum advance curve is also programmable. This means that it has a manifold pressure sensor built into the dissy and can thus implement electronic vacuum advance as well. It also has a built-in anti theft function as well as programmable rev limiter.

I like this product VERY much.

PS: Apologies JR, only read your post after posting mine.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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politeperson
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#4 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by politeperson » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:10 pm

Built in anti theft program. So your car will only work with your phone in your pocket?

Flaming excellent idea.

It sounds brilliant.
James
Responsibly Irresponsible.

L.J.K. Setright was very right.
Jaguar E type Series 2 1969, Citroen CX saloon S1 Gti Turbo 1985, Mercedes W111 Coupe 1969, Mercedes 500 SL 1990, Renault 4 GTL, Tesla Model S 2016, Honda CB1000c 1983, BSA M20 500 1927.

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andrewh
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#5 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by andrewh » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:40 pm

I have bought one but not fitted it yet. I did worry that if my phone goes flat or I lose it I may not be able to switch my car back on?!!?!
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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#6 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:57 pm

Surely its a feature that can be switched on or off (disable thw feature - not the car)
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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#7 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by politeperson » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:47 pm

I cant remember the last time I ventured out into the real world without a charged phone in my pocket. How times have changed.

Well I think it the 123 bluetooth is a great idea. I have been driving a Tesla Model S since 2014 and I never think about keys. I just walk up to the car, get in and go as the car knows the key is in my pocket.

By contrast, I also have a 5 series BMW with the worst designed key system you can imagine. Although it is keyless, you never know whether the car is on or off as it has a silly starting button. This has caused loads of issues over the last few years. Where as the Tesla just turns itself off when you walk away from it, the BMW gets you in a right pickle. It might be on, or it might be off. It might be locked, it might be unlocked. The BMW will also grab your phone signal from 100m so you had better be careful if your phone is paired!

I purchased a Bluetooth switch recently on ebay for £20. It detects a specific bluetooth signal (proximity of your phone), then it activates a relay in the same board, switching higher current electricity to your cars fuse box. You can fit in anywhere in the car, even in the bulkhead I suppose.

Fantastic I thought, the thieves would have to bypass it to get ignition on. I never fitted it though. This distributor would save all the agro.
James
Responsibly Irresponsible.

L.J.K. Setright was very right.
Jaguar E type Series 2 1969, Citroen CX saloon S1 Gti Turbo 1985, Mercedes W111 Coupe 1969, Mercedes 500 SL 1990, Renault 4 GTL, Tesla Model S 2016, Honda CB1000c 1983, BSA M20 500 1927.

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#8 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Tue May 15, 2018 7:33 am

I should provide some feedback on this thread.

I purchased and installed one of these for the 4.2 S1 I've been helping a friend with. And I am highly pleased with the results!!

The car now starts by pressing the starter button and releasing it before you can actually hear that the engine is running, as you would normally say "On, off", that is how quick you press and release the button and she runs.

I've been playing around with curves and at one point I had the engine so responsive that it would best be described as "highly strung", so responsive (sporty) that I knew the owner (in his 70's) would not like it like that. I found myself having to DETUNE the engine so that it would have a more docile nature below 2000 rpm but thereafter I gave it all she's got.

I also found the carbs were not balanced and the mixtures were ridiculously rich on one carb and too lean on another. Once I had this sorted, she runs like a Swiss watch .

We took her out on an extended run over the weekend and the owner could not stop raving about how "the car is going better than ever in 25 years of ownership". He also kept on complaining about the lack of an overdrive gear!

Checking timing with a timing light shows spark at idle ROCK STEADY and 100% stable.

I attach the two curves she is running with at the moment but NOTE: This is running at 1450m AMSL (4750'), so I would expect lesser figures on the centrifugal advance curve where the car is closer to sea level. MAP advance might be very similar. These curves are thumb sucked by moi, and i'm sure one can do even better by tuning on a dyno.

This is the centrifugal advance curve. Note the upwards kink at 2000rpm.
Screenshot_2018-05-10-14-57-41.png
Screenshot_2018-05-10-14-57-41.png (77.73 KiB) Viewed 470 times
This is the vacuum advance curve. I have found with most of my EFI projects that engines with lower compression ratios are highly tolerant of "aggressive" vacuum advance, which is in part why I have this shape.
Screenshot_2018-05-10-14-40-23.png
Screenshot_2018-05-10-14-40-23.png (73.49 KiB) Viewed 470 times
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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#9 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Sat May 26, 2018 7:58 pm

Helped a friend today install a 123 USB distributor into his '84 Rolls Royce Silver Spirit. It was as successful as the install into the S1 E-type.

A very nice feature of this particular model was a wire that could be used to switch the advance curves to between two different curves.

For us living in areas where our cars with high compression engines are used at varying altitudes, this curve switching feature can be used very effectively to switch between a "more advance" curve at altitude and a "less advance" curve when driving at lower altitudes to avoid pinking, detonation, knocking.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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andrewh
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#10 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by andrewh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:24 pm

I have just fitted my 123 Bluetooth in the 4.2. It all working ok, but I cannot see how to start reading the curves or even programming new ones! I must be missing something, Can anyone who has done this put me right please? My Iphone connect ok, and I get real time data, if I press tune I can move the vacuum advance up or down , however if I move to curves on the menu there is nothing in the fields at all! I am sure its just a small oversight on my behalf.
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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#11 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Andrew, all I can tell you, is to click on the "curves " tab. Then Iirc, click on the edit button. Then you can change the values in the table below the graph.

I'm not close to the car, so I had to go on memory... Blond, blue, eyes, and old. No good.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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#12 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by andrewh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:46 pm

thanks for the reply. It seems yo have to sit with the ignition on and the engine off to be able to get up the existing curve and then program it. I hate sitting with an ignition on whilst I fiddle with something like this, I wish it could be done away from the car. 123 instructions leave a lot to be desired to be honest, but I am sure I can work it out. It would be helpful if I had some baseline data for what Jaguar recommended. I need that book, whats it called tuning XKs or something like that. thx Andrew
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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#13 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:40 pm

andrewh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:46 pm
thanks for the reply. It seems yo have to sit with the ignition on and the engine off to be able to get up the existing curve and then program it. I hate sitting with an ignition on whilst I fiddle with something like this, I wish it could be done away from the car. 123 instructions leave a lot to be desired to be honest, but I am sure I can work it out. It would be helpful if I had some baseline data for what Jaguar recommended. I need that book, whats it called tuning XKs or something like that. thx Andrew
Yes, the manual states that curve tuning can only be done while the engine does not run with ignition on. The manual (for the android app) is rather poor and I raised the matter with them. Not sure what they are going to do about it.

Unlike points or OPUS, you need have no concern about having the ignition on. No current flows through the coil if the engine is not running. Only fuel pump should be running with ignition on - not a big deal.

This post on jag-lovers gives a baseline:https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/distrib ... /364365/23
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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#14 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by andrewh » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:27 am

thanks, I shall persevere. I have read the Jag Lovers post very interesting. It not clear whether there are pre loaded curves in the BT 123 or whether you have to make you own. ah well , all part of the fun I suppose.
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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#15 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:06 am

IIRC, there are centrifugal and vacuum cuves pre-loaded. An important step in the process - not mentioned in the manual - is to verify that the timing seen on the crank with a timing light corresponds to the timing reported on the gauge screen.

There are also values for Rev Limit and minimum RPM for vacuum advance pre loaded. The vacuum advance value - in my experience - was 1500rpm - way too high for my liking. As you know, I want vacuum advance - even at idle - so I set it to 700 as per the above screen shots.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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Tom W
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#16 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by Tom W » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:37 pm

If you have a Lucas 11ac alternator, it’s best not to leave the ignition on without the engine running.
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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#17 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by andrewh » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:45 pm

well I now have it working ok, and although I have not finally set up the advance curve by jove its an impressive bit of kit. I have upped the needles to UE from UM and already the car has developed a sense of urgency. I am beginning to think these 123 Blue Tooth Tune are a must to get the best out your XK engine. I am not connected , other than through Bluetooth, to the manufacturers but really like what I have seen so far. I suppose when you think of the linear curve you may have got with a brand new original distributor, and how that may not be perfect for an engine in different states of development, fitting one these is going a long way towards an ECU for an E type, and that without considering the efficacy of a well used original dizzy. I will report back once I have programmed the 123 further and also reset the carbs once more.
1962 3.8 Series One FHC

http://etype860897.blogspot.com/

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#18 Re: 123 Dissy with Bluetooth

Post by jagwit » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:37 am

Excellent!! Well done Andrew.

NOW you are at the point where you can take to car to a load dyno (not inertia) and find out EXACTLY what timing it WANTS at various RPMs by using the tune function to find max torque at various rpms. I suggest you do that at every 500rpm. Personally I would also do it at every 200rpm between 1000 and 2000rpm because that is where the car is driven mostly (jn my case.....).

I found it MOST fascinating to see how the torque figures crept up when I was tuning my Megasquirted cars on the load dyno.
Best Regards
Philip
71 E-type V12 Coupe,
80 XJS (EFI by Megasquirt & EDIS-6 + 5sp manual overdrive)
73 Jensen Interceptor
74 Interceptor (EFI by Megasquirt + overdrive 4sp auto)

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