Looking for advice on a Series 1

Talk about the E-Type Series 1
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Heuer
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#21

Post by Heuer » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:11 pm

MarkE wrote:We're nudging into that originality debate again!
OK, I'll take the bait! If the car is restored today is it possible to find the correct synthetic paint rather than the modern equivalent? Also you can no longer (since 1999) buy the Connolly Vaumol leather Jaguar used. Modern leathers are through dyed and have a matt finish so you will never be able to get a car looking the way it did on delivery. Worried about matching numbers? I know someone who will restore your car with whatever numbers you want. Even I can sort out the chassis numbers in a few minutes:

Original Jaguar factory frame punches - call me for costs!
Image

My worry about making a big deal of "matching numbers" is it encourages people to seek a financial gain by altering things. :roll:
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

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Heuer
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#22

Post by Heuer » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:23 pm

Tony wrote: I actually went to see an S1 the other day and it impressed me, but then it was only a cursory view, all the paperwork seemed to be there.
Looks OK but if you are going to spend that kind of money it should have a full inspection. Worth spending the ?600 for a report. Take it to CMC in Bridgenorth - they will give you a full report and knock the ?600 off their bill if you let them do any remedial work.

Maybe Clive or Geoff have a contact in Lancashire who can help?
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

Add your E-Type to our World Map: http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1810

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Tony
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#23

Post by Tony » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:39 pm

Clive has offered to look over a car when I finally settle on one. I have not quite retired yet so I do not want to waste anybodies time until I can commit the cash.
Tony (E typed)

1962 E Type Series 1 Roadster (OTS)

Tony

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Larry Wade
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#24 S1 car

Post by Larry Wade » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:53 am

Hey guys,

That's a decent car in resale red EXCEPT THEY GOT THE STEERING WHEEL ON THE WRONG SIDE!!

Awful isn't it?

Seriously it is a nice looking car. In the US I would expect to pay about 20 K pounds less for that car. I think for about $100 K US (60 K UK) you could have a completely over-restored trailer queen.

That brings me to the topic of restoration. You can only be original once. Restoring an original car is a crime. By the same token I can't get too excited about over-restoring a car and then claiming it is original. The car in the ebay add does have a fair number of 'wrong' things....that will likely have no effect on your enjoyment if you like to drive. How much value do you put on Cheney clamps or rubberized cloth spark plug wires? There's no right or wrong answer.

The key is to know what will give you pleasure. No matter how you look at it the investment is significant, the continued ownership costs and time are also significant. The reward ought to match your investment.

Please, please keep in mind that a well driven car is a very rare and special thing. Most trailer queens could never hope to drive 1,000 miles with confidence. It takes about 80 miles for an e-type to even warm up completely. Sorting out your car will prove to be a very expensive process, taking about a year if you are very aggressive. If you can buy a car from someone like David (Heuer) who uses it a lot you'll be pretty far ahead in the game. It is well worth paying a premium for such a car. Every stone chip in the paint took a lot of work by the guy selling the car. Remember that e-types hate to sit....and rot while doing so.

Good luck on your car. If you are stubborn, you can have a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Larry
Larry Wade
62 OTS 877842
La Canada, California, USA

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Larry Wade
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#25 Series 1 advice

Post by Larry Wade » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:58 am

Addendum: you've got great taste.

The 3.8 is by far the nicest looking car to be found at any price.

Cheers,

Larry
Larry Wade
62 OTS 877842
La Canada, California, USA

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christopher storey
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#26

Post by christopher storey » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:11 am

Tony : it looks ok until you come to the front view. The bonnet mouth looks peculiar - it should be a perfect ovoid shape, and here the bottom looks flattened, Furthermore, there is one of the classic signs of a less than careful restoration: the front bumpers are sagging . They are time consuming and difficult to get right and are a tell tale

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MarkE
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#27

Post by MarkE » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:14 am

You?re absolutely right Larry, the E Type is a lot more affordable in the US, and there is still a much bigger choice of E Types in the US as nearly 70% of the cars went there. So it?s only reasonable that some come back home!!

There seems to be a growing paranoia about laying up cars and subsequent reliability. This is good from one point of view?.a well restored car laid up for 10 years and needing re-commissioning can be had for a bargain price, due partially to the built up urban myth.

I re-commissioned one of my cars this year that had been unused for 12 years. It was started up maybe twice a year during the lay-up, and stored in a dry environment. It took a weekend to go through the brake and clutch hydraulics, and another weekend to sort out the fuel and ignition, replacing bits as required. I?ve used it regularly since May for shopping, touring and generally blasting about, covering just under 5000 miles, and it?s never missed a beat. And why should it? If a car is in good shape when it?s stored, it only needs a ?big? service to get it back to where it was. Of course, if it?s stored outside in all weathers, or it?s a rough old nail to begin with, it won?t improve with storage! Total cost to re-commission was about ?50, plus my time, tyres and a battery. And it?s a 40 year old Lotus, supposedly one of the most unreliable cars ever made?another pub-myth.

So Tony, I would definitely look at a car that?s had a lot of money (well) spent on it that needs re-commissioning, so long as it?s been stored well. A lot of folks, after spending thousands on the perfect bodywork, can?t stand the thought of using the car in case they gat a stone chip?.they must be a good target!!

Back to originality for a moment. For sure, a car is only original until it?s restored, by definition. But a car can be restored to an authentic original look, and it takes a lot more effort. Most cars are a now restored using 2k paint system which, out of the gun, gives a horrible plastic appearance. The application of a clear coat makes this even worse. A good restorer will rub down the final coat within a few hours of it?s application, leave it for a couple of weeks then polish the paintwork with wax. The finish is very close to the original synthetic or cellulose, and the difference is quite marked. One is bright and brash and shiny, the other looks polished but slightly understated?as it was originally.

The other sin is the use of plastic coating for everything, which makes components look bright and polished that were never like that. Get it plastic coated for protection, but then get it painted. And painted pretty roughly on suspension, steering and under body components. It sounds daft, but when it all comes together, the car looks right. OK, it does for me at least.

My inspiration was a book called ?Corvette Restoration ? State of the Art? by Michael Antonick. Like me, he despised the Pebble Beach concourse restorations, where every component is ?perfect? and totally unlike those that came out of the factory. When all these components are assembled into a car, it looks like a dressed up Danny La Rue version of itself.

Michael decided to visit every junkyard he could find, and many owners of original un-restored Corvettes, and determine what they really looked like coming out of the factory. He then went about replicating what he found, orange peel, runs and all. The result is a restored car that looks like it hasn?t been restored, but just come out of the showroom?.absolute perfection. Not original, but as close as you can get?the next best thing.

Most of us can?t justify spending ?125k on that original untouched car, but we can create something that closely approaches it with a bit of detailed work and for some, an unorthodox approach to restoration.

Perhaps it?s me who?s the heretic!

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Car-Nut

#28

Post by Car-Nut » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:22 am

Larry, Nothing wrong with Re Sale Red :wink: I Love it :!:

Tony, 3.8 is the way to go there the best, dont listed to the jealous 4.2 owners who realise theyve now bought the wrong car :lol:

But thats another debate hey lads :wink:

First big choice are you going for a FHC or a OTS :?:

Which do you think is prettiest, and what will be the main use for the car :?:

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MarkE
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#29

Post by MarkE » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:54 pm

You have to put ?pretty? into context, Clive.
I suggest that a rusty MG Midget driven by a beautiful blond is a far more attractive package than a perfect 3.8 OTS driven by a fat / grey / balding middle aged bloke.

Here?s a man who?s just got out of a Coupe:

Image


And the same man in an OTS?attractive, eh?

Image


Stick to Coupes?.unless you are that blond.

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Tony
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#30

Post by Tony » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:46 pm

It has to be an OTS I am afraid. While the FHC is probable more practical, better aerodynamics and some would say more classical??,I like the open top driving, love red cars, although silver is nice, and blue and green.

As longs as it's an E-type, that has been the dream. You lot are already there and living it. I will have to go and polish the 7 (Westfield to avoid any doubt) to keep me going. Now if you want to talk fast up to 60mph then that's a different matter.
However it does not have the breeding of an E type
Tony (E typed)

1962 E Type Series 1 Roadster (OTS)

Tony

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Larry Wade
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#31 advise series 1

Post by Larry Wade » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:57 am

Hi Mark,

Fat-grey-middle aged-bloke? Wait a minute...I resemble that remark!! Yuck. At least I'm not balding.

Well I may be partially as ugly as Clarkson, yet I've been told that I ought to be sitting next to Marilyn Monroe when in my OTS (luckily my wife wasn't with me at the time). The car is cool even if I'm increasingly decrepit.

I still maintain that a sitting car is a rotting one. Any acid in the oil (blowby) will eat away all that time. As you note how it was stored matters: temperature or bad air: you've got to replace every piece of rubber in the car (rebuilding the suspension is not easy....if you do I strongly recommend polyurethane so that you won't have to repeat the job, brakes, etc.). Bearing grease: modern synthetic no problem but the old stuff will separate in the heat and maybe even without. If the car ran with water instead of antifreeze....guess how much erosion of the aluminum head and timing cover will occur. Also, as the head eats away, and the amount of gasket sealing it is reduced...you get to build due to a blown gasket. Please don't ask.

A car that has been sorted out is a rare find. There are probably thousands of show cars to be found. There are few well sorted e-types in the world. It costs a LOT of money and effort to get it to that point. Today I'd jump in my car and drive from LA to Maine, this evening, without even checking the oil. Why? Because it's that good. I've driven 7K miles a year for the past 4 years and have found the car to be great....after a year of expensive and frustrating repairs and rebuilding.

So I agree that the body and paint will be fine if the car is stored well. However everything else is suspect.

Larry

PS Hi Tony, I think the OTS is way prettier than the FHC. That huge lump on the back end overwhelms all the other curves. The e-type is one of the few cars which is much prettier as a convertible.
Larry Wade
62 OTS 877842
La Canada, California, USA

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MarkE
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#32

Post by MarkE » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:25 pm

Hi Larry
I'm afraid that I resemble that remark as well. Whilst I don't get too much abuse in the OTS E-type or Elan, the Mini Moke attracts a lot of comments. The kids shout 'cool car Mr' whist the older generation enquire about when I may grow up. That will never happen of course!

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Mark Gordon
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#33

Post by Mark Gordon » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:39 pm

When I was out for a spin a few months ago, a couple of rough looking guys pulled up on my left at a stop light. The passenger rolled down his window and said, "Gorgeous car ya go there, man. You need a good lookin' blond in it with ya." I didn't disagree with him on either statement, but since my wife is a brunette, she might.

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Echezeaux
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#34

Post by Echezeaux » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:42 am

OTS nicer than a FHC ??
I don't know about this one, and I drive an OTS !

My next buy would be a FHC 3.8, 62 or 63, frosted rims, and opalescent blue, or gun metal ,or dark blue, or.....

I really like to see a modified E , to a degree ! I still don't know about the latest Eagle roadster ! And I really appreciate to see an original or close enought, E-type.

E-type can be all different, because we are all different, the main thing is to drive one, rusty or not !!

Thierry
3.8 RULES

I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather,not screaming and terrified like his passengers.

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Dave K
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#35

Post by Dave K » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:53 pm

Heuer wrote:
Tony wrote: I actually went to see an S1 the other day and it impressed me, but then it was only a cursory view, all the paperwork seemed to be there.
Looks OK but if you are going to spend that kind of money it should have a full inspection. Worth spending the ?600 for a report. Take it to CMC in Bridgenorth - they will give you a full report and knock the ?600 off their bill if you let them do any remedial work.

Maybe Clive or Geoff have a contact in Lancashire who can help?
David,

I know eactly who you mean when you say know someone who can change a car to matching numbers they did it for a friend of mine for ?5000. A LHD car became a RHD car with matching numbers and a log book.
Thats why I would never use them to buy a nut or bolt off and of course they don't do it they give it to someone else to do for them don't they? and we know who he is don't we!!

As for matching numbers it matters to me everything on my car is original with the '61 stamp on it I have even had the tops of relays blasted and plated so they have the right original date on. My car is a matching numbers car and I wouldn't buy one that wasn't, maybe thats just me.
Dave

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Phil
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#36

Post by Phil » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:06 am

Talking about originality and adding scarcity...

this one might be worth to look at

www.xkedata.com/cars/detail/?car=850018

it is now for sale (165000 GBP)

... but not for me :cry: no I did not win the lottery yesterday :cry: ).
Philippe
1972 V12 2+2, Belgium

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