Sovy Failure

[288gto]

Given that Barratts own Sovy and assuming it doesn’t reveal any trade secrets, perhaps Julian or his team could post up some pics of the tooling and process involved, I’m intrigued. I know they already have pics and some great videos of other parts they make.

Simon

[Series1 Stu]

Didn't Julian Barrett say that they make the bottles using the original tooling they acquired when they bought Sovy?

If so then clearly the tool is worn out and that is why Julian has said they are looking at improving the product, likely with a re-tool.

If the tool halves are not meeting properly then, if it's bad enough, you can get a discernible ridge on the inside too and this gives a weak point.

My concern is that SNGB don't have the skilled people to solve these sort of problems and are pretty much at the mercy of their, probably Chinese, suppliers.

Regards

[mgcjag]

Hi Stuart...I dont think you need to be concerned that SNG do not have the necessary skills to solve these sort of problems...They are on the case...Im sure we will hear soon what their plan is....Steve

[44DHR]

Hi Guys,
Sorry for the late post, but we’ve been away and not been able to take the following photos until our return.
Incidentally, on our recent trip away, we called into SNG on the 30th May to collect some parts and just caught the last of the Forum members before they departed after their tour and meeting there, so it was good to put some faces to the names.
Just to say that there are other suppliers of these brake and clutch reservoirs and having heard of leakage or splitting problems with reproduction reservoirs, as we regularly go out to the US West coast on one trip I brought back a couple of brake reservoirs and a clutch reservoir from XKs Unlimited in California.
These they state are now manufactured by them and they have taken steps to provide a “superior“ part with a moulded in reinforcing sleeve and internal filter, plus the brake reservoirs have stainless steel floats rather than the original cork and aluminium floats.
I post these photos purely to show the quality and construction and perhaps a noticeable larger taper to the attachment pipe moulding. They appear a very strong moulding and do not flex. Having not yet used these items, I cannot endorse them, but perhaps some of our US colleagues have and could comment if these have proved effective and not give rise to any moulding issues ?
Regards,
Dave

[JulianBarratt]

I will report back on the current manufacturing process in a bit more detail shortly alongside what we find from the return from Richard. I stand by my original comments with regards to our plan moving forward as outlined before.
I didnt point out previously that we have our own bottles fitted to our own 50EE and they have not been changed since they were fitted during the restoration of the car in 2010 and i would say that there arent many E-types that go further or get more vigorously used - as those at Shelsley this weekend can attest where we did at least 60 runs up the hill.
We are also familiar with other brands on the market and i seem to recall we looked at these when we upgraded the material thickness some years back and do not believe there is a better alternative, though i will check this.
With regards to the comments of Stuart and our in house skill set, its a shame you couldn't make the forum event we put on last week as you would have had the chance to meet all of our team and find out exactly what skill set they have - which i would very strongly argue is the strongest in this sector by some margin. The invite remains open to you to come and visit and I would be happy to give you the tour of exactly where these bottles are assembled in Bridgnorth, Shropshire and introduce you to the team involved in our design and R&D processes. You could even take a trip over to where the bottles are moulded which i will admit is east of where we are but not as far as you suggest - its in Wolverhampton. The invite is open if you would like to replace speculation with facts as i believe its been some years since you came to our place...do feel free to drop me a DM.

[rswaffie]

Hi Julian
I’ll be popping the bottle in the post to you in the morning.

[Geoff Green]

Moving treasure in the garage this weekend I was reminded of plastic gallon oil containers that leaked after sitting for a year or so from a split at the seam along the bottom because I found a gallon antifreeze container leaking and a quart brake fluid container leaking. All from the seam or some call the mold line where the two halfs come together.

Perhaps the cracking is because these containers and the replacement brake fluid reservoirs are of a different chemical composition than the ones of the 60’s.

Geoff

[splosh]

I've had 3 from SNG and they all leaked, cost me 2 bottles in the long run. They don't leak at present because the cars in bits...
About time SNG addressed this problem as it's inherent in all that they despatch.
Come on Guys... get it right.

[ralphr1780]

When you buy the brake fluid, the plastic containers are never leaking.
And you can store it for years, still with no leak.
These are plastic, thin, have seams, with at least the same capacity as our subject bottles.
Maybe our suppliers could use the same plastic for their bottles...

[Heuer]

Yes Ralph, but to be fair they are not subjected to rapid fluctuations in temperature or the stresses and vibrations in the engine bay.

[ralphr1780]

David, I was just illustrating an important aspect here: the type of plastic used which should have a specific ESCR (=environmental stress cracking resistance) performance for the contained liquid.
If you look at the engine oil containers, these are made of a visibly different plastic than the ones for the brake fluid. The antifreeze is again in a different one. Milk too...
In my professional activity I have been involved, still now to a certain extent, in some of these applications from the raw materials side. The costs per kg vary significantly, and processing methods and equipment have to be adapted. So it boils back again to the cost.
Btw, do you recall I was looking few months back for old bottles?

[Heuer]

Indeed - did you find any? I bought a set of three originals a couple of years back and they all leaked within a few weeks of fitting them.

[ralphr1780]

Yes, luckily, after good cleaning and a session in the dishwasher (filter removed) now fitted since months.
Of course will be monitoring regularly their condition, but so far so good.
I am sure many bottles have been thrown away simply because they looked filthy, while they could have gone for many more years by simply changing the rusted filter base-spigot.

[Series1 Stu]

Came across these the other day.

It would be interesting to see how they stand up to being pressed back into service.






They are definitely made from a different material and wall thickness to what is currently on the car.

[Heuer]

The originals I bought were cosmetically very good and barely required any cleaning. After fitting them though they leaked. Here is one of them:


You can see how this one split. I did try to weld a repair using a kit designed for the job and even used plastic from another original bottle as the 'solder'. Looked like good joints under magnification but after filling them with brake fluid (this time in a jig off the car) they leaked. It has been a problem with the Sovy design and Jaguar implementation since the 1960's which is why many contemporary cars used aluminium or plastic bottles which were attached directly to the master cylinder.

[Jeremy]

I'm resurrecting this thread as my nearside (single) reservoir bottle (square design) has started leaking. Not from the spigot at the bottom, but oozing out from under the bracket, so the front surface of the bottle is wet:



This was new from SNG about 3 years ago. Julian indicated that he was going to look into the long-standing issues with these bottles, but I haven't seen if there have been any developments?

The bottle has spewed out about half its contents so far. Fortunately I'm using DOT5 silicone so the paintwork is all ok. Thank heaven I followed Angus's advice on that point.

Julian, if you read this, grateful for any update you can offer.

[Jeremy]

Here's the failed bottle. You can see the split half way up in this photo, nowhere near any seam or spigot. I can categorically say that the bottle was not subjected to pressure or stress when I fitted it (I knew they were delicate so I handled them with great care).



Angus has come to my rescue by supplying a set of replacement (original) bottles, for which I'm extremely grateful.

And another issue on this product (not dangerous, just irritating) is the level indicator. The sticking-up pin is approx 4mm too long, so if the rubber cap is properly fitted it pushes the float down and turns on the warning light. So either the pin needs cutting down or the cap needs a higher dome.

Julian, forgive me if I've missed an update on this elsewhere. Otherwise, could you let us know where it's at? Thanks!

[tim wood]

Interesting post on J-L from Ray Livingston on this subject.

Not a solution for purists but I’m tempted.

https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/brake-sacrilege/387424

[ralphr1780]

Tim, this is surely better than the current repro bottles available on the usuals.
Although psychologically I am not well prepared to accept a bmw part on my car
The other valid option is to locate old original ones that look darkened and clean them, they would keep you going for years.

[cactusman]

Sadly no idea where they were made but I saw a race e type with stunning aluminium reservoirs a la the original round ones fitted to S1 3.8 cars...polished and with the original caps fitted....non original but looked stunning....