Engine removal

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peters3103
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#1 Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:36 am

Hi Gent’s,
Well today I removed the bonnet and rad, fan, header tank, air cleaner, oil filter etc etc. Still a bit to go. Without the luxury of a hoist in my garage (or the height to use one) I’m going to pull the engine out the top. I’ve done it this way previously on my last S1 so I do know what I’m in for.
The question is, do I split the ball joints to get the torsion bar reaction plate off or try tapping the bolts back risking thread damage. On my last effort I ended up having to replace said bolts as they were damaged which necessitated splitting the ball joints in any case.
Any tips that the factory workshop manual
doesn’t cover would be appreciated, particularly from those who have done this more than a few times!

Cheers,
Pete
61 FHC
99 XKR FHC

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: Engine removal

Post by mgcjag » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:42 am

Hi Pete....I would go with splitting the balljoints so the tension is off....so long as you have the room and dont need to wheel the car about....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#3 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:01 am

Thanks Steve, yes I’ve got the room to do it.

It seems the preferred method is to remove the engine from the bottom. I’m wondering if I could, in fact, raise the front of the car high enough to get it out. I don’t know if my borrowed engine hoist would raise the car enough though. I’d also need to construct an engine trolley.
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99 XKR FHC

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#4 Re: Engine removal

Post by abowie » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:14 am

peters3103 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:01 am
I don’t know if my borrowed engine hoist would raise the car enough though. I’d also need to construct an engine trolley.
It should. We routinely install engines using a hoist to lift the body up.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#5 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:58 am

Thanks Andrew, how & where on the car do you lift from?

Cheers
61 FHC
99 XKR FHC

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#6 Re: Engine removal

Post by mgcjag » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:05 am

Hi Pete...just an example photo from Chris Vines Blog ... i think its less of a lift than taking engine out the top
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Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#7 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:22 pm

I think the engine lifting hoist I have will not allow the engine to be rolled out from under the car, as front or side on, the legs will be in the way. Ideally for this you need an overhead gantry of sorts.

Cheers
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#8 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:25 pm

As pictured.
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#9 Re: Engine removal

Post by abowie » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:38 pm

peters3103 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:58 am
Thanks Andrew, how & where on the car do you lift from?

Cheers
When I do this at home I do it on my hoist, but in the workshop we usually just use the lifter.

Strap around the picture frame.

We usually have the back axle on jack stands under the splines to give more height.

Make up a rolling trolley with all 4 wheels able to rotate. This is important for fine adjustment of the engine.

You need to prop the sump up on blocks so that the bottom is around 12 inches off the floor to ensure you have enough clearance on the front suspension to get the engine in.

Make sure your engine mount bolts thread freely before you start, and we often relieve the hole around that one bolt so that it will fit a socket easily.

If you are using new engine mounts be aware that the bolts may be metric. Check that they will go into the slot on the mount on the bench and relieve as necessary before you start.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#10 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 am

Many thanks for this info Andrew.
61 FHC
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#11 Re: Engine removal

Post by mgcjag » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:04 am

Hi Pete...you shouldnt have a problem with your lift....dont make your engine trolley very wide so the engine wheels forward inbetween the legs....if you do run into problems once the body is lifted you can always use blocks to hold it up in position and remove the lift....As Andrew says above raising the rear will help......Steve
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1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#12 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:14 am

“You need to prop the sump up on blocks so that the bottom is around 12 inches off the floor to ensure you have enough clearance on the front suspension to get the engine in”

Andrew, not quite sure I know what you mean here. This is when reinstalling the engine, correct? Is it not a reversal of removal, ie
Lift car, roll engine on trolley into position then lower car and lift engine/box into position? Sorry if I’m missing the obvious.

Steve, yes you’re probably correct there. I’ll have a play when I pick the hoist up on Friday.

Cheers,
Pete
61 FHC
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#13 Re: Engine removal

Post by mach2andy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:07 am

Hi Pete
When I removed my engine from the top I was a bit concerned with the amount of weight that I was lifting and tried to keep it to a minimum. The head had already been removed and you can see from the picture that I bolted the lifting eyes to the front and rear head stud positions. I dropped the engine/gearbox onto the floor and disconnected the gearbox and bell housing and slid those back out of the way. I was then just lifting a bare engine block which was very straightforward.
Don't know if this helps or not, but I thought I'd throw it in the mix.
ATB
Andy

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Andy Chalmers [in Hove]
1970 S2 FHC in pieces, but pieces flying more in formation now.
1965 SB Corvette Ragtop

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#14 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:26 am

Thanks Andy, always good to get input and other options. As I said I did my previous S1 out the top without incident and helped a mate last year remove his out the top albeit on a car for full resto, so not quite as much care required regarding the duco. Only went down that route as I was following the Jaguar factory repair manual.

Cheers,
Pete
61 FHC
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tim wood
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#15 Re: Engine removal

Post by tim wood » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am

I’ve done it both ways single handed.
All that weight on a secondhand crane definitely put the wind up me. Mind you I was younger then and maybe a little less aware
It’s a big heavy lump and getting the angle correct is obviously essential

Second time was a drop out the bottom job. Made a trolley out a bit of 19mm ply with wheels. Managed to pick up some axle stands that went up enough to give clearance and easy out.

I’ve heard of people “capturing “ supermarket trolleys and with the aid of angle grinder making a fine tool for moving an engine around.

If I ever do it again it’s a bottom out job - no question
Series 1 FHC purchased 40 years ago. Courted my wife in it.
Series 1 2+2 when the kids were small now sold.
Series 1.5 OTS in opalescent maroon, Californian car. My retirement present.

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#16 Re: Engine removal

Post by chrisallen01 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:46 am

Last time dropped the engine out of my S2 I used a wheel dolly to move it on to the engine stand, worked perfectly.
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Oxford UK

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#17 Re: Engine removal

Post by abowie » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm

peters3103 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:14 am
“You need to prop the sump up on blocks so that the bottom is around 12 inches off the floor to ensure you have enough clearance on the front suspension to get the engine in”

Andrew, not quite sure I know what you mean here. This is when reinstalling the engine, correct? Is it not a reversal of removal, ie
Lift car, roll engine on trolley into position then lower car and lift engine/box into position? Sorry if I’m missing the obvious.

Cheers,
Pete
Sorry if I'm not explaining this well.

With the front wheels off and the hubs and rotors still on, the suspension will hit the ground before you can undo the mount blocks, so you need to have the engine up high enough.

This will be the same when taking it out. So you need to put some blocks (I use a couple of 18" long bits of 3x6" pine) on top of the trolley otherwise you can't get the body low enough to undo the engine mount bolts. Your trolley will end up about 6" tall and the blocks make up the rest. Try sliding your trolley under the sump with the wheels on the car and you'll see what I mean, the bottom of the sump will be inches above it.

If you're going in through the bottom the engine remains stationary on the trolley and you lower the car down onto it. The point of putting the engine on the trolley is that it sits horizontal and still; you don't have to try and lift it. Trying to manoeuvre 350kg of engine and transmission without damaging anything is very hard to do which is why most people prefer not to put it in through the top.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#18 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:47 am

Thanks heaps again Andrew, I get what you’re saying now, me not you mate.
I’m going to do as the manual says and knock the TB reaction plate off with the ball joints in place. I want to be able to move the car in and out for degreasing etc. Worst case scenario, if I bugger the bolts I’ll split the ball joints and replace the bolts before I drop the engine back in.
I may even do ball joints and wishbone bushes yet. Look out!

Cheers,
Pete
61 FHC
99 XKR FHC

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#19 Re: Engine removal

Post by peters3103 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:50 am

Getting there
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#20 Re: Engine removal

Post by mgcjag » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:02 am

Hi Pete....could still be worth splitting the balljoints to release tension on torsion bars....removeing plate then retitting ball joints....really depends on your work space....if your crawling under car to tap back reaction plate bolts its not easy.....Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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