New Paint

Talk about the E-Type Series 1

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inner pickle
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#1 New Paint

Post by inner pickle » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:09 pm

Greetings all,

I wonder, should I be contemplating any special treatment for my newly painted E Type?

Colour is a grey metallic which would usually get a Meguiars wax and polish ...however new paint?

My history with Meguiars has been a happy customer based on a black finish I'd once had on a car and it's been excellent ever since.

Clearly I don't need anything too aggressive and was wondering if there are any opinions as to what's best shampoo / wax wise.

Help appreciated

John

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mgcjag
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#2 Re: New Paint

Post by mgcjag » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:27 pm

Hi John...i would chat with your painter....also discuss useing a car cover.. he will know what paint has been used..Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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Heuer
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#3 Re: New Paint

Post by Heuer » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:50 pm

As it is newly painted i would stick with washing (with a wax additive) for the first few months. The paint will be soft so over zealous waxing could introduce swirls. Also be careful of using a car cover which could do more harm than good for the first year. As Steve says, speak to the painter as he can tell you what formulation he used and what to be careful of.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB

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inner pickle
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#4 Re: New Paint

Post by inner pickle » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Many thanks both, good advice I'm sure.

I do have a cover from my previous AM ownership, but I'll hold off using it for a while.

I'll chat it through with the painter for a few tips.

Anything enlightening, I'll post.
In the meantime, apologies this should have maybe been a "technical" post.

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madjack4
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#5 Re: New Paint

Post by madjack4 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:39 pm

Hi it all depends on how its been painted and what with if its been painted in modern 2 pack paint and baked in a low bake oven the paint will be totally cured and u can polish it as u would with old paint if its been painted then air dried im afraid u need to be careful as it will never cure properly and will always be soft and god forbid its painted in cellulose like some old school restorers say it was in cellulose from new so it needs doing in it again total rubbish no good in the 60s and worse now u need to find out how its been done

Regards

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dxke38
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#6 Re: New Paint

Post by dxke38 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am

Hi, I am interested in your comment about the unbaked two pack never drying. I had my Ser 3 bare metal painted two years ago and I don 't think it was baked. It has a lovely finish but gets marked very easily. Could the lack of baking be the cause and if so is there any cure? Maybe park it outside in the sun for a day or two? :scratchheadyellow:
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

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#7 Re: New Paint

Post by mgcjag » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:35 am

Hi Derek....2k paints do not dry they cure/harden due to the chemical reaction of the hardener used.....this process can be speeded up by useing an oven.....very much depends what actual paint has been used on your car and if 2k then was the correct hardener and quantaties used.....i would contact your painter......Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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dxke38
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#8 Re: New Paint

Post by dxke38 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:45 pm

Thank Steve, I'm sure the right materials were used and the right quantities but the lads were just starting their spray business and didn't have bake facilities. Just wondered if the unbaked paint was the cause of it marking easily and whether it would eventually cure and age harden. It's not really a problem as it looks superb, I just have to be careful when cleaning or polishing the paintwork.
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Image
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

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madjack4
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#9 Re: New Paint

Post by madjack4 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:51 pm

Hi i agree its a chemical process but again it needs to be baked to fully harden it my painter is a retired troubleshooter for a leading paint manufacturer he went round to paint shops that were having problems and he told me the main problems he had were complaints of soft paint because they did not let the booth get to temp before setting timer so it didnt bake properly when 2 pack is baked properly its rock hard i got my s3 in signal red back from them as i put boot lid on i dropped a half inch ring spanner on the rear panel from about a foot it didnt put a mark on it as for your soft paint u need to some specialist advice its not right

REGARDS

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dxke38
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#10 Re: New Paint

Post by dxke38 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:25 am

Many thanks for the good advice, I wouldn't say the paint is soft but it definitely is more fragile than my other E that was painted 12 years ago. I'll go back to the sprayers and also get an expert to check it out.
Thanks again
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

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rfs1957
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#11 Re: New Paint

Post by rfs1957 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Ovens are used to get the jobs through the 'shop quicker, full stop.

Their heat speeds up chemical reaction between the mixed components, full stop.

It is not necessary in order for the paint to harden properly, nor to be harder over time, it just means it can be out into the dust faster and intensify the use of the booth.

All the rest is nonsense, although the fat fingers and absence of any punctuation makes that pretty obvious.

The issue about timing appears to have been misunderstood, as the problems generally come when the paint is over-baked before the evaporation of the solvent (called flashing-off) has taken place.
Rory
3.8 OTS Cream 877393 Built May 28th 1962
1978 Mini Van
(plus bevel and belt single-cylinder Ducatis)

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#12 Re: New Paint

Post by christopher storey » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:41 pm

rfs1957 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:56 pm

All the rest is nonsense, although the fat fingers and absence of any punctuation makes that pretty obvious.

:yeahthat: ( I'm afraid ) Take advice from your painters as to what they've used, and be very careful putting anything on the paint for the first few months, and under no circumstances put any textured material on it such as carpet

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steve3.8
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#13 Re: New Paint

Post by steve3.8 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:33 pm

dxke38 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
Hi, I am interested in your comment about the unbaked two pack never drying. I had my Ser 3 bare metal painted two years ago and I don 't think it was baked. It has a lovely finish but gets marked very easily. Could the lack of baking be the cause and if so is there any cure? Maybe park it outside in the sun for a day or two? :scratchheadyellow:
Sorry to say Derek but that's a typical result of using a 2k hardener that is beyond its shelf life , more often than not an opened tin used weeks later. Once opened it needs to be used . Most painters always return to the left over paint in the mixing cup to check it has cured , old hardener results in a soft rubber type cure.

As for new 2K paint John [inner pickle], i would get it waxed before it gets exposed to rain/road film or bird bombs , this is good--

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Autosmart-Ca ... SwNIheemvM
Steve3.8

64 3.8 fhc, 67 4.2 fhc

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madjack4
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#14 Re: New Paint

Post by madjack4 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:55 pm

Rory u talk total rubbish get your information correct it must be baked to fully harden it will get by without baking to reach a rock hard finish it MUST be baked last time im going to say it think what u want

Regards

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#15 Re: New Paint

Post by dxke38 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:10 am

It seems that me and inner pickle have found a difference of opinion re 2K painting. I am finding it difficult to get a definitive expert answer but I do know that my car was painted with new materials because I bought them myself with advice from the supplier. As I said before my paintwork is not soft or rubbery, it is fragile to the point of marking easily if I am not very careful when cleaning it. If baking is only done to make the paint cure quickly then I would have thought it would eventually harden with age or am I wrong.
Derek
64 ser 1 fhc, 71 ser 3 2+2.

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#16 Re: New Paint

Post by madjack4 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:12 pm

Hi again all i am going on is my painter the ex sikens paint troubleshooter painted me some panels for my RG500 when i asked him why he put tank in booth at a different time to plastic panels he told me he baked tank hotter to harden it better and plastic would not take that temp and that is why it stone chips easier like cars with plastic bumpers they always chip easier and tend to be off colour because of different heat they are baked at as for that crap about turning jobs through quicker how many paint jobs do a body shop do all the time is in the prep bay its about 5% of the job that is spent in the booth if they could cure properly without heat would they spend all that money on a booth plus about £30.00 a time on gas or oil

Regards

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angelw
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#17 Re: New Paint

Post by angelw » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:39 pm

madjack4 Wrote:
how many paint jobs do a body shop do all the time is in the prep bay its about 5% of the job that is spent in the booth if they could cure properly without heat would they spend all that money on a booth plus about £30.00 a time on gas or oil
Hello madjack4,
One very major advantage of the modern 2K paint is the good finish and high gloss that is achievable off the gun without further cutting and polishing. However, they flash off slower than Acrylic Lacquers and therefore, have a propensity to gather dust. Accordingly, that 95% of paint jobs done in the Spray Booth, is the 95% that probably wont require de-nibbing all over.

The body shop baking process is not actually baking; it’s just a speed curing. Urethanes produce a small amount of heat as they cure (an exothermic reaction). If you add heat to the reaction, you accelerate it, but it will still cure completely if you don't; it just takes more time.

Following is an extract from a Sikkens data sheet; so as to compare oranges with oranges regarding your ex sikkens paint trouble-shooter. You can look at the data sheets from any number of Automotive 2K paint manufacturers and the information is very similar. They all give comparative time of curing at an easily achieved ambient temp and a force curing temperature. None, or very few at best, state that forced curing with heat is mandatory.

Image

Typically, prep bays are not dust proof. Their main purpose is to help stop contamination of the remainder of the workshop. They have curtains to assist in containing the dust created therein and an exhaust system that creates a lower pressure compared to the surrounding area. Accordingly, as well as containment, further contamination is sucked into these areas from the surrounding environment. Therefore, if you want a non-slip, textured paint finish, paint it in a Prep Booth and not a proper Spray Booth.

The main purpose of a proper spray booth is to provide a dust free environment and a draft that sucks the over-spray away from the painted surface. The best system is a Full Down Draft, where the over-spray is drawn towards the floor and not over the previously painted surfaces.

The following picture shows the two prep bays and the spray booth of my shop.

Image


The body shop’s baking process is used to speed up operations so the expensive spray booth asset can be made ready sooner for another job. Its not a requirement in the life expectancy of the finish.

Following is a picture of a first finish operation of an S3 E Type. Its rather cold in Ballarat at the moment and the heat lamp is only to get it touch dry. In warm weather, no external heat would be used.

Image

Regards,

Bill
Last edited by angelw on Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gfhug
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#18 Re: New Paint

Post by Gfhug » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:51 pm

As always, when Bill sets pen to paper we get a very comprehensive and true answer :salute:
Thank you, Bill, for setting this out so well.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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mgcjag
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#19 Re: New Paint

Post by mgcjag » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:35 pm

As always a great post Bill.......thanks...............Derek....i hope this gives you an answer.......Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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madjack4
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#20 Re: New Paint

Post by madjack4 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:58 pm

Look what ive started i will stand corrected and have a word with my man and see what he thinks of it thanks for your explanation
Regards

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