'64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

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cdaubs
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#1 '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by cdaubs » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:32 am

It's been a couple years since I posted here. Car is running great. When I put it back together I never really got the bonnet fitted properly. I takes a fair amount of push to get it closed and locked.

So, I was wondering....is there any reason why I can't just close the bonnet, unbolt the hinges, let it relax into position, place the shims to take up any spacing, re-tighten and call it good?? Seems it should work.

Thank you all!
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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cdaubs
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#2 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by cdaubs » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:28 pm

Hmm, no feedback? :roll: :shrug:

I might have time to try it today. I'll get back to you on the result. :fingerscrossed:
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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#3 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by mgcjag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:52 pm

Hi.....Less than 24hrs since you posted. .....sounds like it might work.....not the way that most would adjust their bonnet.....but you might just hit on a new way of doing it....all the best...Steve
Steve
1969 S2 2+2 & Building a C type replica

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#4 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by tinworm » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:22 pm

I would start by looking at the alignment pin adjustment on the bulkhead.
You may be able to take a photo of each side with your phone by reaching up while the bonnet is closed.

Barrie
1968 E-type roadster, 1964 E-type fixed head 1995 Ferrari 355 1980 Ferrari 308 1987 V8 90 Landrover 1988 Bedford rascal van 1943 Ford GPW

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#5 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by cdaubs » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:42 pm

I know it has been a short time since posted but it got A LOT of looks already. Just looking for feedback or "NO, DON"Y DO THAT!". :smile:

The under the bonnet pics is a great idea. Good place to start I guess. :P

Can't get to it today, tomorrow looks good though. Stand by....
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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#6 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by Gfhug » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:16 pm

cdaubs wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:42 pm
I know it has been a short time since posted but it got A LOT of looks already.
Charlie, you were much more relaxed in your restoration topic :bigrin:
Good to hear from you again and I hope all is otherwise going well.
Please do tell us if it works, that’ll be a great way to work on bonnet fitting.

Cheers

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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#7 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by 288gto » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:57 am

Gfhug wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:16 pm
cdaubs wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:42 pm
I know it has been a short time since posted but it got A LOT of looks already.
Charlie, you were much more relaxed in your restoration topic :bigrin:
Good to hear from you again and I hope all is otherwise going well.
Please do tell us if it works, that’ll be a great way to work on bonnet fitting.

Cheers

Geoff
As you know Geoff, this is what I'm doing this weekend. It does work but you need to support the weight of the front of bonnet to add or subtract shims that govern the wing to sill gap and make it parallel.

Charlie, as mentioned above, I can't help thinking that some of your problem is how the catches are adjusted. I spent all day yesterday with my son getting just ONE side to line up and latch properly.
Also remember regarding shims that what ever you do to one hinge will affect the diagonally opposite corner of the bonnet. We found this sequence worked for us.

1. Centre the bonnet to the bulkhead.
2. Adjust the bonnet so the bonnet rear edge is parallel to the bulkhead but with a bigger gap than you need and ensuring you have at least 3 thin shims on the top of the pack at the back of each hinge.
3. Adjust the height of the bonnet until the wing to sill gaps are equal and parallel.
4. Centre the bonnet again if necessary.
5. Check that the sill gaps are still parallel and adjust if necessary.
6. Remove the thin fore and aft adjustment shims mention above on each hinge with a pick to close the rear edge to bulkhead gap the required amount. (See last picture)

The bonnet pins should fall nicely into the brackets on the bulkhead. The angle on the bonnet catches (mounted to the wings) as well as their up/down ,forward/back adjustment is important. The throw of the latches on the bulkhead can be adjusted slightly by screwing the pull hand in or out but remember the felt pad seal on the rod inside the bulkhead must cover the slotted hole. If the pull handle is adjusted too long the rod and seal will bottom out against the bulkhead before the handle is rotated. The pin locating catches on the bulkhead can be adjusted from side to side but very little up and down. Up and down is done on the bonnet pins themselves.

Make sure you have the correct shims and the right way round otherwise removing or replacing will be difficult. The proper ones that go on the front of the hinge have a small hole in them that allows them to be drawn out with a pick. See last two photos of the left hand hinge/shim arrangement.

This is by no means a definitive guide just what worked for us and welcome other suggestions or input.

Most importantly when you start to get fed up of it or your son has, after 8 hours, lost patience with his dad, stop and agree to go back to it the following day! :lol:

Image

This pic doesn't show it too well but the sill gap is still slightly larger at the front at this point.


Image






Image

Image
Last edited by 288gto on Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#8 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by 288gto » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:42 am

Hi Charlie,

As well as the catches it might be worth checking the bonnet stays are adjusted correctly and not preventing the bonnet closing properly? There are also a lot of places clearances are very tight like inner mud guards, heater intake etc so make sure nothing is hitting and forcing the bonnet down isn't just bending or squashing something. A good tip for checking clearances is a loosely rolled up ball of aluminium foil masking taped in place.
I have found all this so much easier with the front wheels off.
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#9 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by Mich7920 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:23 pm

Hi,
I fited the shims as view on the photo but with the hole in horizontal reverse . With the hole at the exterior of the hinge it's more easy to take it in or off.
Mich
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road - 1963 E Type OTS - Angus Restoration
Gran Torino Sport 1975 - Renault 4cv 1956 - CItroen 15/6 1951 - CItroen Traction 1945
Citroen Coupé docteur 5Hp 1924 - Citroen B12 1926 - Torpedo Sygma 1913
Harley D. 1915 sidecar

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#10 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by 288gto » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:52 pm

Mich7920 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:23 pm
Hi,
I fited the shims as view on the photo but with the hole in horizontal reverse . With the hole at the exterior of the hinge it's more easy to take it in or off.
Mich
Interesting Michel. I have always fitted them hole inwards because I thought it offered more support on the load bearing part of the hinge? With the hole at the pivot end there is also less of the shim on show. I wonder how they did it at the factory?
Pictures below show my theory but I might be wrong?


Image

Image

Image

Image
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#11 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by Mich7920 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:09 pm

I think that when the screws are teighten, there is no effort in diagonal but in longitudinal so the shims are enought in contact. But I also might be wrong... No, I don't thing so :bigrin:
Mich
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road - 1963 E Type OTS - Angus Restoration
Gran Torino Sport 1975 - Renault 4cv 1956 - CItroen 15/6 1951 - CItroen Traction 1945
Citroen Coupé docteur 5Hp 1924 - Citroen B12 1926 - Torpedo Sygma 1913
Harley D. 1915 sidecar

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#12 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by cdaubs » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:37 pm

Thank you for the feedback. I checked the mounting pins on the firewall and they line up nicely when the bonnet is closed. So I'm pretty sure I just need to adjust the number of shims to bring the bonnet closer to the firewall. Yes? And maybe to sit lower on the pins when it is caught by the center catch?
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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#13 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by ralphr1780 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:18 am

I have been lucky in obtaining a good fitment in a fairly limited number of attempts by following the procedure described by 288gto here above, and I was alone.
However, I removed first the rubber landing seal and used a strip of a soft insulating foam.
Once I was happy with the fitment, the rubber seal was put in place and indeed required some pressing to push the two latches in. After few weeks, the seal got shaped and I just need a light press for latching.
Ralph
'69 OTS + '62 OTS - Belgium

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#14 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by poofacio » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:47 pm

The factory fitted the shims as in picture 2
61 RHD OBL DHC
61 flat floor DHC
61 FHC
63 FHC
66 FHC (QUAD LIGHTS)

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#15 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by Mich7920 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:50 am

Simon, you were right and I was wrong! :oops:


Image

Photo from factory fit
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road - 1963 E Type OTS - Angus Restoration
Gran Torino Sport 1975 - Renault 4cv 1956 - CItroen 15/6 1951 - CItroen Traction 1945
Citroen Coupé docteur 5Hp 1924 - Citroen B12 1926 - Torpedo Sygma 1913
Harley D. 1915 sidecar

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#16 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by 288gto » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:43 am

Mich7920 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:50 am

Photo from factory fit
After we both posted our theories I did have a look through the factory fit but couldn't find the vital picture evidence. Thanks for taking the time to do more thorough research and posting the picture. :thumbsup:
It still doesn't rule out the possibility that a rogue fitter with French ancestry put his in the other way round at the factory just to be a rebel. :lol:
Simon
1969 S2 OTS

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#17 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by Mich7920 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:57 am

Exceeeelent ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Michel
1965 E Type FHC - On the road - 1963 E Type OTS - Angus Restoration
Gran Torino Sport 1975 - Renault 4cv 1956 - CItroen 15/6 1951 - CItroen Traction 1945
Citroen Coupé docteur 5Hp 1924 - Citroen B12 1926 - Torpedo Sygma 1913
Harley D. 1915 sidecar

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#18 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by cdaubs » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 am

I played with the bonnet today. I only messed with the front of the mounting bracket to adjust the bonnet towards the bulkhead. I now have NO shims on the drivers side and ONE thin shim on the passenger side. :shock: I adjusted the stays just a bit and it closes better. It lines up well. Is it unusual to use no or just one shim?? :shrug:
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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#19 Re: '64 3.8 Bonnet fitment

Post by tinworm » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:01 am

The repro picture frames can be thicker than original - this is not much though. Main reason will be the bonnet has been cut down on the back edge. As long as you have adequate adjustment this will not matter. I have had to weld on metal to recover bonnets cut down like this.

barrie
1968 E-type roadster, 1964 E-type fixed head 1995 Ferrari 355 1980 Ferrari 308 1987 V8 90 Landrover 1988 Bedford rascal van 1943 Ford GPW

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