Series I 3.8 dash top

[mfg680]

Can someone help with this mystery. My series I DHC dash top had the non-padded vinyl top. I believe it is original because 876230 (Nov. 1961)is a 10,000 mile car and the dash doesn't appear altered. On removing the vinyl, I see 4 holes (arrows), which line up with the 4 holes on brackets. There were no bolts in these holes. Because the vinyl is thin, you can actually see the impression of the holes in the vinyl. Why are these holes there? There was nothing between them and the vinyl but I'm thinking I'll have to cover them before recovering the top. Does anyone have an explanation? Has anyone else encountered this issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mitch

[abowie]

Could it be that someone has drilled out spot welds?

[mfg680]

My feeling is that those holes were there, from the factory, before the vinyl was applied. They're precisely where the brackets on the chassis are. There were no bolts through them when I disassembled it. Did cars earlier than 876230 use these holes and, is this a transition part between changes? I'm thinking of putting a thin layer of material under the new vinyl to hide them. So far, I've restored everything to original and that would not be. I'm just curious as to how others, who've encountered this, have solved it.

Mitch

[mtnjag]

My metal and vinyl dash top was original prior to replacing the vinyl/foam.
You say “vinyl”. Do you mean just vinyl or foam covered vinyl. Mine was a foam covered vinyl top, the thin earlier top.
I have studs in those areas on my metal portion, hard to tell exactly that location, but the metal top has studs that nut to the brackets in the fuse compartment. The brackets are removable and nut to the fixed portion of the body on either side of the fuse compartment.
No way whatever is at the holes would show through as it is a rigid foam under the vinyl dash top replacement.
As you see my car is close to yours in manufacturing date.

[mfg680]

The earliest Series I, welded louvers, flat floors (876230 is the 1230th OTS Left Hand Drive car? It has the double boot hinges, rubber pad on pillar tops, etc.) had no foam. The vinyl was applied right on the steel top. Before I removed the thin vinyl, I could see the impression of these holes in the cover. I'm thinking, if no one has an answer, I might grind the heads on 4 bolts to about 1 mm, place them through the holes and epoxy them in place, then sand smooth and finish with a thin layer of filler. It seems to me that someone else must have run into this same dilemma.

[mtnjag]

Interesting, didn’t realize they used the vinyl straight on the steel with no pad on early cars. But I’m no expert.
My car is slightly earlier with same characteristics as yours, but single boot hinges on either side, and while no outside bonnet latches it has the mounts for them on the inner sills.
I am second owner and purchased it in ‘82 from a friend of my fathers who bought the car new. The car was in storage in his garage for 10 years and I believe it had a thin dash top with vinyl over foam with significant cracking. Surely looked original and the car had not been touched since parked in 74I believe. If I remember correctly the metal has the car number scribbled on the bottom of the metal dash. The metal does have the center studs to secure it in the cavity behind the gauges.
I’ll dig through the old pictures I have of the resto i did 30 years ago to see if I have something on it.
Is that vinyl with no foam on the early cars documented somewhere?

[mfg680]

Thanks Layne, that would be interesting. I know I'm obsessive compulsive to some degree but I'm wondering now, if my car might have been altered. It really doesn't look like these holes ever had bolts through them. It also has the pencil written number on the underneath side.

Mitch

[mtnjag]

Mine are not bolts, they are studs spot welded on or maybe inserted through with flat heads and tack welded. I don’t quite remember. I’m sure ai have some orig Kodachrome prints buried away of it. Just had the dash off a while ago to work behind the tach and speedo. Maybe I have some digital pics from then. I’ll take a look and post if I have something.

Could well be as Bowie suggested and way back repro tops may not have been available or simply easier and cheaper to get rid of the bump and glue down some replacement vinyl. Once upon a time these cars were cheap.

One of the experts can supply an answer I think.

[mfg680]

Thomas Haddock shows, in his restoration guide, the difference between the early thin type and the aftermarket and later thickly padded dash tops.

Mitch

[mtnjag]

Yes, i mention in my post in #4 I had the thin earlier top. It had foam under the vinyl.
I had a choice when I got the repro-thin early or the later thicker top. I do not think the “thin” top I got was as thin or Flat as the orig but it was thinner than the thick!

[mfg680]

Thanks Layne,

One reason I think mine is original is that those very thin fragile white plastic demister nozzles are in place under the spot welded steel strips. It would have been impossible for anyone to remove those without destroying them. The vinyl on it looks like the Thomas Haddock picture, with no foam, just vinyl applied directly to the steel, with some dark brown glue.

I thank everyone for your input.

Mitch

[BobArmstrong]

Here are some pics of the underside of my dash, it’s a February 1962 LHD roadster, it has the same holes but unused, the dash is held by two bolted brackets. The unused holes line up with holes in the cheek plates of the instrument panel which you can also see in the pics.

[mfg680]

Yes!, exactly, Bob. It looks like yours has the vinyl applier to the steel without a foam layer as well. Do you plan to put a layer of something between the vinyl and the steel? I see that your middle demister nozzle is also broken. I don't believe that these are available. The Mini has a straight one that is about the same length. I may try to fit one of those.

Mitch

[mtnjag]

Bob,

Interested to know.

Was there some thin foam between the vinyl and steel top or was your vinyl directly glued to the steel with no foam?

Mitch, you have the hold down bracket studs that Bob shows, is that right?


Layne

[BobArmstrong]

Mitch / Layne,
I’ve not taken the vinyl off my dash top, it’s in decent condition so I’m just going to give it a clean up and spray paint inside the demister vents. The dash top is an early thin fronted type and has some padding, it’s very very firm so I wouldn’t describe it as feeling like foam though after possibly 60 years who knows. I’ve attached a few more pics including a demister vent I bought from carbuilder.com, they come in centre or side inlet, I bought one of each to see which cleared the wiring best. I would recommend a carbuilder catalogue, there’s nothing Jaguar specific but it’s an invaluable source of gizmos, whatsits and thingys to replace those bits you thought you had stashed but will only find when the cars finished. I’ve just ordered old fashioned paper and wire heater ducting and spire clips.

[mfg680]

Thanks Bob, Those vents look like a good solution to the thin plastic ones and probably cheaper than the Austin Mini one that I was looking at. There was nothing between the vinyl and the metal on mine. The vinyl was less than 2mm thick. Did you say your car was older than mine? 876230 was made November 1961. Thanks for your input, you gave me some good suggestions.

Mitch

[mtnjag]

Bob, sounds like the same as mine. Thin type. The “padding” is a hard rigid foam type material, not soft at all.
The repro top is also a hard foam like material.
My car is just a little earlier Mitch. See my car number.

[Airborne62]

I found an early thin dash under a lot of foam and bad vinyl on my 62 FHC. Same four holes (unused) and two studs for brackets. I cleaned it up and covered in Black vinyl. I designed and 3D printed new vents which are press fit and can accept a mating piece on the underside. I haven't decided if I am installing the outer curved vents yet.