New clutch and thrust bearing

[rayloud@outlook.com]

Hi All, Hope someone can help. My S1 has just had my old spring clutch replaced by a diaphram type. The reason was that the thrust bearing was worn out and was hitting the housing so had no distance left to travel. Unfortunately it's made no difference and the thrust bearing arm is still against the housing so we have got no further. The mechanics didn't prove the new clutch before reassembling the whole thing so now I'm faced with doing the whole job again. There is talk between the supplier of the new clutch and the garage that maybe I have a bell housing that doesn't suit the new clutch. I see this problem is not new to this forum. Any advice would be much appreciated. The garage is more or less saying that they fitted the correct clutch and it's not their fault but I'm surprised that the experienced e type supplier guy didn't warn them that this could be a problem as many people here seem to have suffered it.
Thanks Ray

[mgcjag]

Sounds like you havent taken it to someone who knows E types......The mechanic/garage that did the job is your point of contact and the one responsible to give you back a working car.....incorrect bell houseing sounds odd..........unless you supplied the clutch and insisted it was fittied........its not your problem........so where are we now...have you driven out of the garage and the clutch has now failed.....or is it not drivable out of the garage....Steve

[rayloud@outlook.com]

Hi Steve. Thanks so much for reaching out. Basically, when I went there a week ago they'd put everything back together but told me the clutch wasn't working. They as yet haven't offered an explanation so no, it's not been driven but they kind of inferred on the phone that it wasn't their fault. The car is still in the workshop. So, I'll go there tomorrow and see what they say but regardless of whose responsible I'd love to know why it has the problem it has. It's ridiculous that they put the whole thing back together, including the interior and centre console, before testing it. They do quite a bit of work on e types so I'm a bit shocked. I've read a few ideas on resolving the issue, including bending the thrust arm under heat but that sounds like a bodge.
Thanks again.
Ray

[abowie]

I have just done exactly that on my 3.8 OTS. It is fitted with a JT5 5 speed box.

They should have ensured that the clutch worked prior to reinstalling the engine and gearbox in the car. This is easy to do with a big screw driver to move the clutch fork and then seeing if the gearbox output flange will rotate with the clutch actuated and the gearbox in gear.

Anyone who doesn't do this is asking for trouble.

The likely problem is that they've fitted the wrong thrust bearing. I've not heard that there are different bell housings that don't work with diaphragm clutches. I have an all synchro box in my 3.8 FHC. It has a bell housing from a Moss box that I machined the bearing recess to fit. It works fine.

They did it wrong. They take the engine and gearbox out and fix it, at their cost.

[mgcjag]

Andrew above is probably correct...wrong thrust bearing...forget about bending the clutch fork as with correct parts it shouldn't be required...it could even be the slave cylinde not operating the clutch....but we're just guessing...Steve

[rfs1957]

Be wary of heating and bending.

It’s indeed a perfectly reasonable approach, and I have done it myself to get the operating arm in an optimum position after I had changed the thrust bearing on my JT5 just like Andrew.

However, it of course only works on FORGED arms, whereas AFAIK the new replacements are all CAST.

Ask me how I know

[rayloud@outlook.com]

Hi R
Thanks for that. I guess you tried to bend a cast and it broke? How can you tell if it's forged or cast?
Ray

[rfs1957]

Funny that, I was just looking for the pictures.













These are part of this post regarding clutch arm and thrust bearing issues.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16018&hilit=clutch

Hope this helps.

[politeperson]

I have had exactly this happen to me.
There are at least two different heights of thrust bearing, a tall one and a short one. Sounds like the short one needs swapping out for the taller version which should bring the fork back onto the center of the bellhousing slot.
From memory, this is further confused by the fact they might carry the same part number.
SNG should know.

[mgcjag]

There are i think 5 different thrust bearings.....so beware....this photo shows the 2 common types although the one on the left has no carbon remaining but you can see the basic body difference...Steve

[MarekH]

If there are that many variations, then it makes sense that people start taking measurements.

I'd suggest a standard way to do this:- turn a brand yet to be fitted example upside down and with the carbon face down, measure the height to the centre line of the pivot. Clearly a new example of the one on the left will be as much use as a chocolate teapot if the one on the right was the correct one that ought to be fitted.

kind regards
Marek

[mgcjag]

Hi Marek...its simple....if you replace a part just make sure its the same as the original your replacing.....to many just order a part from one of the usual suppliers and expect it to fit without checking...then find out they have problems...Steve

[malcolm]

Ray, keep it simple. The garage undertook a "contract" to repair your clutch. It's there responsibility to do that. They haven't, so need to fix it if they want to be paid. Presumably you haven't paid them yet? In which case don't, and have your car taken somewhere that has competent mechanics.

[rayloud@outlook.com]

Thanks again guys for all your input.
They've dismantled the whole thing again - just wanted to know from those out there that may know - do these pictures look normal for a 66 S1 box and bellhousing?
Help will be much appreciated.
Ray

[abowie]

Looking at that gearbox I'm dismayed at the amount of oil and dirt inside the bell housing.

Assuming that this was taken AFTER they took the box out for the second time it doesn't speak well for their general standard of care.

Before they put the assembled engine and gearbox back in get them to test the clutch.

1.Put the big clevis pin into the 2 eyes on the clutch fork.
2.Put the gearbox in gear. The output flange should not be moveable.
3. Use a big screwdriver to retract the clutch fork completely.
4. ensure that the output shaft flange will now rotate by hand.

Your gearbox number seems appropriate for a 1966 car; I had a look at XKE Data.

[1954Etype]

I think I'd be concerned about the amount of new swarf in the bottom of the bellhousing. Where has that come from?

[rayloud@outlook.com]

Thanks Andrew.
The swarf I think is from them cutting a bit out of the housing to give the thrust arm more space to move.
R

[rfs1957]

If there are that many variations, then it makes sense that people start taking measurements.
I'd suggest a standard way to do this:
Marek

Good point re standardising measurements, Marek ; this was a sketch I put up a few years ago that corresponds with your reasoning, and also suggests a standard for thrust face to flywheel-surface.

[mgcjag]

You cannot standardise these measurements...it will depend on the application....there are various different clutch covers that have different dimensions from the flywheel face to the thrust bearing pad face....its really up to the installer to check that everything works correctly...dont just purchase from a supplier and assume that what they send you will work.....Steve...

Ray ....so they have butchered your bell houseing becaus they dont know what they are doing ....collect the car on a trailer and take it to a specialist....Steve

[rfs1957]

Neither Marek nor I are suggesting that you can standardise sizes, and even less that you can deduce from them whether they will fit such and such an application.

We are merely proposing that we agree on how we measure sizes so that conversations and exchanges are based on a set of common standards.

It is tiring to contribute time and effort to the Forum, and going to the length of bothering to take pictures and draw diagrams, to then have to suffer spurious objections.