Toe Board Dimensions?

38E · Post by **38E** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:19 am

Can someone provide me with the dimensions of a RHD toe board please. My car is a very early 3.8 and I never had one. I do have the dimensions for a LHD board from JagLovers but the passenger's footwell shape on the RHD is quite different so it's not a lot of help. Thanks.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:31 pm

There was someone selling these on eBay a while back and I was waiting for him to do some in blue. Never seen any dimensions anywhere.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:35 pm

I have not tried it myself, but it seems logical that a LHD toe board would fit a RHD passenger footwell if turned through 180 degrees vertically. As it happens, I did photograph mine at the weekend with a ruler alongside. That way if book buyers blow up the photo to a size where their copy with taspe measure markings matches real tape or ruler gradations, they would have an exact life-size replica to trace from. I'm sure the publisher would not agree to a fold-out template, as the cost would be too high, so that's the best I could do. However, in all fairness, we're not talking rocket science here. Ten minutes with a couple of cornflakes packets or a piece of stiff card, would get you a profile perfectly suited to your own exact footwell, no matter which side, or what Koolmat/underlay/carpet thickness was used etc. This is not necessarily the case with an original toe board if you have used thicker trim and an extra layer such as Koolmat. It's not a precision job to snip cardboard and offer it up until you're happy, then transfer the outline onto plywood. Suffice it to say the important parts of the shape seem to be the vertical sides and the notches to avoid the under-dash harness conduit at the top left corner (RHD) and the lower notches where the foot well recess meets the floor adjacent to the tranmission tunnel (RHD or LHD). Get those right, plus the overall width, and you can do pretty much whatever you want along the top edge. My LHD original is a bit wavy along the top and is notched redundantly top right in a way that would certainly clear the harness conduit top left if it were reversed and used in a RHD car. I haven't tried it on the 'wrong side' in my LHD coupe because of the pedals, but I suspect the wooden board is one-size-fits-all. Maybe you could try with your cardboard cut-out and report back to help others here?

Pete

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Here is a photo of a LHD board:

And here is the RHD version:

The latter ?35 from SNG

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:35 pm

Actually they are all LHD but it proves my point. If you invert the upper photo you'll see the shape is identical to the lower items, with a notch in the bottom left corner. The notch top left in your upper pic and bottom left in the 'RHD' (actually LHD) boards is where the board's 'tongue' into the footwell is notched to clear the angle between the footwell side and the side of the transmission tunnel. When the passenger sits on the right, this is obviously the bottom left corner of the board. The right vertical side is just a continuous drop down the inner sill into the footwell. For RHD passengers sitting on the left, it is the left side of the footwell that runs straight down into the footwell and the right side is the tranny tunnel and needs the notch. I'm quite certain the same piece of board will do both jobs depending which side you trim.

Pete

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:09 pm

Or Jaguar trimmed both sides to simplify production (although Arthur Whittaker, Jaguar chief buyer, may have had something to say about that!) as indeed SNG may have done? I will order one and report back.

38E · Post by **38E** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:30 pm

OK, thanks for the replies. Yes, I know that I could mess around with a cornflakes packet and a pair of scissors but I had hoped to be able to reproduce a passable copy of the actual original rather than just bodge something up. It's a 99+ point car, after all. The left side toe board is not just a flipped right side one. I already made a template form the dimensions Jerry Mouton had provided on Jaglovers and it nowhere near fits plus there is the electrical conduit to clear. The pictures David provided are actually all the same and all for a LHD car. The top one is merely upsidedown. Anyway, having tried unsuccessfully to get it right, I will now have to resort to bodgery. As for me buying your book, Peter, I don't think so, but if you want to send me a complimentary sample copy, I'll let you know how well you did.

Post by **1954Etype** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:42 pm

38E wrote: As for me buying your book, Peter, I don't think so, but if you want to send me a complimentary sample copy, I'll let you know how well you did.

Ooooh, now theres a challenge Clive! How about you put some detailed photos of your car so we can tell you how well you've done :D

38E · Post by **38E** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:25 pm

It's a joke I previously had with Peter about his writing a book on E-Type restoration and I was kidding him that I thought he should actually do one himself first. (He says he actually has.) Click the link in my signature if you want to see detailed photos of my work.

Post by **1954Etype** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:05 pm

Apologies Clive if you thought I was being discourteous. That was not my intention. Pete deserves all the flak he gets and I, for one, would be the last one to defend him! (Not that he needs any help anyway). :D

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:07 pm

38E wrote:Yes, I know that I could mess around with a cornflakes packet and a pair of scissors but I had hoped to be able to reproduce a passable copy of the actual original rather than just bodge something up. It's a 99+ point car, after all.

Sounds nice. However, if you haven't seen an original toe board you possibly have a wrong idea about its quality. I would think anyone taking reasonable care with basic woodworking tools could easily match or exceed factory quality. It is much much simpler than, say, making boot boards with their chamfers and fittings.

38E wrote:The left side toe board is not just a flipped right side one.

I just went out to my LHD 66 coupe and flipped the right side toe board and it fits fine on the left side, in so far as it's possible to offer it up. I then fitted it to both sides of my S2 OTS and exactly the same applied. My advice/opinion is worth what you paid for it, but if there are any differences they must be minute. There is a very small caveat for both, in that with the pedals in situ it's clearly not possible to press it all the way into place on the left side in my cars. My RHD car is a 2+2 with very different footwells and never a toe board of course, so I didn't try it in that. Looking at it over the pedals in both SWB cars it seems quite clear the board would fit. When the board is reversed, the redundant small cutaway top right on a LHD board is perfectly placed to miss the conduit located upper left in a RHD passenger footwell. Nothing needs to be modified IMHO except which side is trimmed. The trim overlap technique is like the boot boards of an FHC/2+2 in that there is a 'back' side where the trim is folded over and stapled, so it would be fiddly but not impossible to trim both sides. Can't ever see them wasting the time and materials though! I will try my LHD board in Angus's RHD car tomorrow if he's around and confirm what seems very clear, just to remove all doubt and convince the waverers.

38E wrote:I already made a template form the dimensions Jerry Mouton had provided on Jaglovers and it nowhere near fits plus there is the electrical conduit to clear.

.
I can't comment on what Jerry sent but would you like to place a small bet to a charity of your choice that my LHD board will fit Angus's RHD car (Angus will be a witness either way)?

38E wrote:The pictures David provided are actually all the same and all for a LHD car.The top one is merely upsidedown

That's what I said. At least we agree on summat! :-) Anyway, having tried unsuccessfully to get it right, I will now have to resort to bodgery.[/quote]
As mentioned, with care you will make a 100-point job of it, no sweat. You can meet or exceed factory spec easily. Note the plywood is not painted black like the reverse of the bootboards. The facing is vinyl like the hardura texture and the edging is a border of plain vinyl sewn around the perimeter of the hardura piece, which mimics the vinyl binding on the hardura pieces. The sewn seam follows the board all around and about 1-2 mm in from the edge. This seam is pulled flat and it is the binding which is stretched over the board and stapled with a staggered double row of staples into the wood at the back. I haven't peeled the trim back as the board is absolutely pristine, but I'm guessing it's seven-ply as it's about half an inch thick. Hope this helps.

Pete

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:13 pm

38E wrote: The left side toe board is not just a flipped right side one.

As a coda to this thread Clive, I can confirm that as suggested my original 1966 LHD toe board does fit RHD cars when flipped. Angus's car is a 67 I believe. It is trimmed with extra material compared to OEM (which made the board snugger side-to-side than it is in my standard 66) but the board fits as I thought it would. The issue of vertical fit hardly arises because in practice you would simply alter the tilt to the point where the board sits snugly in any car, regardless of 'height'. The width is fussier as there's not much wriggle room between inner bulkhead and transmission tunnle sides, except for the give in the trim. My results remain purely anecdotal evidence (a sample of three cars with one board is hardly comprehensive) but the implication is clear. Someone might care to ask Barratts if they use the same piece of wood for both configurations and merely alternate the trimmed side for LHD / RHD applications, as I believe Jaguar did. Me? I already gave.

Pete

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:20 pm

I was down with Suffolk & Turley today and asked Eric Suffolk about this. He produced an original RHD toe board and his master template which was marked LHD on one side and RHD on the other and confirms they are the same board flipped over. The original is however only covered with hardura on one side, the back being bare wood so the factory trimmed the boards to suit the market it was intended for and an original LHD board would fit a RHD car albeit with the untrimmed side outwards. Eric confirmed these were supplied by Jaguar as 'optional extras' and was particularly interested in my question as mine was only the second request he had for one of these in the last 30 years! As Pete notes the vertical dimension is not a problem as the board fits at an angle but the width may be an issue if the car has additional soundproofing (e.g. Kool-mat).

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:20 am

Heuer wrote:.. Eric Suffolk ..produced an original RHD toe board and his master template which was marked LHD on one side and RHD on the other and confirms they are the same board flipped over.

Yup, once you get one in your hand or look at an outline it's obvious. Even glancing into the footwells shows they are mirror images each side, so I don't think it wasn't seriously in doubt. However, since this thread started we've actually been to Spa and Aachen etc in the car and I can report that my wife loves the toe board I pinched out of the 66 FHC and used in the 69 OTS! She gets hip and back twinges and chose her Disco because of its sitting-up driving position. But the toe board was great support for her feet, which just fall naturally onto it (you can adjust the angle a bit of course) and this took the pressure off the back of her thighs. I think it alters the hip angle too so I'd definitely recommend that such a cheap and easy-to-make part be tried by anyone whose 'significant other' complains about comfort in an E-type. If it works, you can then trim it to match. The only downside is that after four days the passenger footwell carpet was a bit scrunched and rumpled from where toe board moved it around. You see it most when you take the toe board back out so I suppose the solution is to leave it in place? Something to bear in mind if you've just fitted pristine carpets I guess.

Pete

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:38 pm

This item is new to me. What supports the toeboard in its tilted position ? Does one end just rest on the bulkhead and the other end wedge slightly into the footwell to hold it in position ?

Nick L.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:37 am

Pretty much. The board is 'taller' than the square end panel. By the time the top front edge lies against the upper part of the footwell the base has to be towards the seat and the slope is like jamming a ladder under the eaves of a house. I've heard of the triangular space behind it being used to hide valuables on S1 OTS cars with open glove boxes. I suppose it's more safe from prying eyes than an open glovebox with the top down, but not much more.

Pete

38E · Post by **38E** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:19 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:...and I can report that my wife loves the toe board I pinched out of the 66 FHC ...
Pete

So now you know why I want one. :) A person would need awfully long legs to be able to get support from the firewall panel.

Heuer wrote:I was down with Suffolk & Turley today and asked Eric Suffolk about this. He produced an original RHD toe board and his master template which was marked LHD on one side and RHD on the other and confirms they are the same board flipped over.

I wouldn't argue with Eric Suffolk but what about clearance for the electrical conduit? The RHD board would need an additional cut-out for that. So anyway, the dimensions I have may be suspect and I will just have to make something up that fits. Bedsides, my car is a very early example and may not be quite the same as later 3.8s. Thanks for the help. (BTW, a long time ago, Eric Suffolk provided the interior for my car which can be seen on the xkedata link below. Still looks beautiful.)

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:07 pm

38E wrote:I was down with Suffolk & Turley today and asked Eric Suffolk about this. He produced an original RHD toe board and his master template which was marked LHD on one side and RHD on the other and confirms they are the same board flipped over.....
I wouldn't argue with Eric Suffolk but what about clearance for the electrical conduit? The RHD board would need an additional cut-out for that.

As mentioned, the board fits either way because in effect you have a redundant cut-out on the LHD board, not a missing cut-out on the RHD board - it is already there as you can see. When the top of the RHD board is that far forward there doesn't need to be some honking great chunk out of the top left corner - the conduit isn't that big at the very front, as it is rounded off where the top of the board rests in effect almost 'past' the widest bit. Note that the upper board edge is wavy too and there's hardly a dead straight line on the template anywhere. That means it copes with odd bits of harness poking out of sill recesses, or choke cables or whatever coming in at the top of the footwell. Your missus will love it I'm sure, especially in a 3.8 with fixed seats, because as you'll know from flying long haul, plane seats that give you a footrest can make a big difference to the back of your things and overall seat comfort. They seem to be prevalent in Rollers and Bentleys too, so I suppose if it's good enough for them...

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:10 pm

PeterCrespin wrote: Your missus will love it I'm sure, especially in a 3.8 with fixed seats, because as you'll know from flying long haul, plane seats that give you a footrest can make a big difference to the back of your things and overall seat comfort. ...

Err, make that the back of your 'thighs', although I suppose it might make life easier for the back of your things too

david muir · Post by **david muir** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:18 pm

So......... after all that discussion as to the boards value..........does anyone want to draw round one and send it to me??

Thanks,

David
3.8 fhc

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