A very late 3.8

[hirstydg]

Let me introduce myself to the forum as a new e-type owner. I recently purchased a RHD 3.8 FHC. Its chassis number, 861773, indicates that it is the 17th last RHD FHC made and interestingly it has a lot of features that I had assumed were introduced with the 4.2. It was rebuilt in the 90s and although it is very straight with no signs of rust, the finish quality is poor and needs cosmetic restoration. I am keen to restore it to as close to original as possible, so would appreciate any advice regarding which features of the car are correct and which are later mods. Here is a summary:

3.8 features:

3.8 engine.
Uncomfortable, non-reclining bucket seats with scalloped bulkhead.
Moss box
Kelsey bellows servo with twin brake fluid reservoirs on bulkhead (Coopercraft front calipers have been fitted)
+ve earth electrics
Dynamo
Fuel pump in tank
Rear hatch stay is nonarticulated type

Later (4.2?) features

Fluted air intake plenum
Centre console in leather with lidded box (there is no provision for a radio and the speaker panels are just blank dummies).
Ashtray is wide oblong type
Cant rail trim continues right round quarterlight
Top front door area has separate small panel trimmed in vinyl
Otter switch is on rear side of header tank
Drive shaft outer UJs are fitted with covers

Furthermore the car was first registered in August 1965, several months after the 4.2 was introduced.

So should I retain everything as is or return some features to 3.8 spec? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
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[Heuer]

Welcome to the Forum!

Details on how to post pictures here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1666

The last few months production of the 3.8 had a number of 4.2 'features' so your car is very probably correct. You may be able to find more out here: http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/e-type1.pdf As for keeping the car totally original it really depends on what you are looking for - a concours show car, something to drive on sunny weekends or a car you can blast across Europe in. The E-Type seems to be one of the few classic cars whose values are unaffected by 'upgrades' and in fact some of the most expensive are highly modified.

[MarkE]

Hi and welcome Hirsty.

As a new E Type owner having gone into the detail you have (very impressive!), I rather suspect that you are more interested in originality than the modification route. In my view, an original car is no less drivable than a modified one, but maybe the car will require a little more maintenance than its modern counterpart.

Reliability certainly isn't an issue for an original car, and whilst electronic ignition and injection can make the car fire up more quickly and run a little more smoothly, it can also go wrong. And when it does, you can't usually just change a couple of components.

I drove an original 3.8 last year for the first time, and had a couple of observations. Firstly, the Moss box was an absolute delight to use, and sounded fantastic. Secondly, I really couldn't live with those seats! I am a bit tall for E Types though, and my S1 has S2 seats (which recline) trimmed in the style of an S1. So good that a photo of the interior is used to show what an original 4.2 S1 interior looks like in the new 'Factory Original Jaguar E Type' book!

But I have kept the original seats, the original wheels and original exhaust manifold / front brake callipers...the extent of my modifications.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Photos needed...and a name!

[hirstydg]

Many thanks for the interesting comments and advice. Seems there is a lot you can do to an e-type without devaluing at least as the market stands at the moment. Well, I took the decision that another restoration is required, keeping as close to original as possible. I'll keep the Coopercraft brakes though. After dismantling it is clear that the car is very sound but not great cosmetically. The following rather poor pictures (will try harder next time) show progress to date (scary how easy it is to reduce a ?30,000 car to a pile of bits not worth half that!). Still it should all come together over the next few weeks?

The registration document and the old green logbook show the car as being Tartan Red, which was not a Jaguar colour in '64-'65 if ever. I am intending to have it repainted in the very similar Carmen red which I think is the colour behind the dash and probably original. The brightwork is generally good, but will probably look less so against the new paint. Any recommendations for rechroming and does anyone know if cadmium plating can still be done?

David

[christopher storey]

David : your car looks to me to be Carmen Red . The only suggestion I would make is that you should see a Signal Red E before you decide finally . This was used from about 1968 onwards, and is less orange and more pillar box red . Most people seem to prefer it to Carmen, and I think it is less prone to fade - my FHC in Carmen ended up different colours on different panels

As far as Cadmium plating is concerned, it can still be done, and I know of 2 aerospace concerns who will do it, one in S Wales and one in the South West of England ( can't remember the names ) BUT when I enquired the cost was frightening - the front suspension pieces were nearly ?500 and that was nearly 4 years ago . Most people now have them done in zinc with yellow passivation, which looks authentic but is not terribly durable if you get salt exposure, or the alternative ( which I opted for) is the recently developed process of zinc-nickel plating, which produces a very durable corrosion resistant finish, albeit with a slightly silvery-purple tinge to it . These processes are likely to be about one-third of the cost of cad

[hirstydg]

Just got back the Jaguar Heritage certificate and much to my surprise the car left the factory in Opalescent Golden Sand (see XKE-data sourced photo of this colour) with a red interior. I am surprised because there is not a trace of this colour anywhere on the car and several databases indicate that it was introduced with the 4.2 in 1965. My car was manufactured in July 1964 (but not registered on the road till August 1965). Could it be that because it is one of the (17th) last 3.8s it became undesirable when the 4.2 was about to be released and sat around at the factory or at a distributor (St Helier Garage, Jersey) until a buyer was found? Could it also have been given the "new" 4.2 colourscheme by the factory to help shift it? All speculation of course; any thoughts much appreciated.

I am now faced with the unexpected dilemma of whether to stick with the Jaguar red it currently sports (I suspect it was painted this colour in the 80s when it was the most popular) or go back to the Opalescent Golden Sand with red interior of the original. At the moment I favour the latter option which I think is rather elegant and discreet. I would greatly appreciate any opinions. Many thanks

David

[Heuer]

Opalescent Golden Sand with a red interior is a gorgeous combination that is not often seen these days. According to Clausagher there were 114 S1 3.8's produced in this colour combination and 222 S1 4.2's, so the colour scheme is correct for your car in terms of year and model. Don't think you have a choice really especially as there are too many red E-Type's about.

[hirstydg]

That's great to know David. Many thanks. Decision made, back to original colour scheme it is then.

[Peter B.]

David,
if you have this kiond of choice, go for the opalescent golden sand. Much more suitable for the shape and the curves of an e-type than red, at least in my very personal opinion. Bat tht?s what you asked for.
And the red interior makes it even more perfect!
Regards
Peter

[BrianM]

Now I find this very interesting. I just picked up a late 3.8 LHD FHC. #890854 a little later then yours but with different features.

Fuel pump outside the tank.
No glove box cover.
It does have arm rests, doors, and center with opening box
Otter switch on the thermostat housing but that may be PO.

Maybe they did just grab whatever part was nearest, and slap it on???

BrianM

[1954Etype]

Now I find this very interesting. I just picked up a late 3.8 LHD FHC. #890854 a little later then yours but with different features.

Fuel pump outside the tank.
No glove box cover.
It does have arm rests, doors, and center with opening box
Otter switch on the thermostat housing but that may be PO.

Maybe they did just grab whatever part was nearest, and slap it on???

BrianM

I've never seen a Series 1 car with a glove box cover. The outside fuel pump is interesting. Do the mountings look as though they have always been there from new?

[hirstydg]

That's interesting. I also have no glovebox lid, but pump in tank and armrests on doors. I also have the oblong (4.2) ashtray and no radio or even blanked off slot (gearlever surround comes too far up the dash to permit it). There are also blanking panels (look original) where the speakers should go. Prefer engine sound anyway, though radio 4 is nice when stuck in traffic.

David

[1954Etype]

David, any chance of a photo - doesn't sound original to me!

[PeterCrespin]

The only Series 1s with glovebox lid were the 2+2 but these can be told apart by also having the scuttle vent rotating chrome knobs. Of course, these come in handy when converting a Series 2 OTS to Series 1-style dashboard, like wot I have done.

Pete

[Philk]

Opalescent Golden Sand with a red interior is a gorgeous combination that is not often seen these days. According to Clausagher there were 114 S1 3.8's produced in this colour combination and 222 S1 4.2's, so the colour scheme is correct for your car in terms of year and model. Don't think you have a choice really especially as there are too many red E-Type's about.

My S1 LHD OTS was manufactured on 24 June 1964 (one of the last 150 LHD OTS 3.8s built) and this too is Opalescent Gold Sand (although it is currently British Racing Green). It will be an interesting dilemma whether to restore it back to that colour if I take the plunge for a full restoration.

[Philk]

Now I find this very interesting. I just picked up a late 3.8 LHD FHC. #890854 a little later then yours but with different features.

Fuel pump outside the tank.
No glove box cover.
It does have arm rests, doors, and center with opening box
Otter switch on the thermostat housing but that may be PO.

Maybe they did just grab whatever part was nearest, and slap it on???

BrianM

Hi Brian

You'll see from the Series 1 forum, that I've created a new post around Engine Cylinder Block part numbers. Since yours is also a late LHD 3.8 (albeit a FHC as opposed to an OTS), I would be very interested as to what Cylinder Block part number yours has. In case you're not aware, it's located on the right hand side (behind the carbs) just under the cylinder head gasket. On my car, the block number is C22250 FF.

In terms of your post above, mine was built late June 1964. It too has no glove box cover. Interestingly, it still has its fuel pump inside the tank.

Regards

Phil

[BrianM]

Now I find this very interesting. I just picked up a late 3.8 LHD FHC. #890854 a little later then yours but with different features.

Fuel pump outside the tank.
No glove box cover.
It does have arm rests, doors, and center with opening box
Otter switch on the thermostat housing but that may be PO.

Maybe they did just grab whatever part was nearest, and slap it on???

BrianM

I've never seen a Series 1 car with a glove box cover. The outside fuel pump is interesting. Do the mountings look as though they have always been there from new?

Sorry for the 5 year late response. Just rediscovered the UK site.
Yes it looks like the original pump was always mounted outside the tank.
Also now that engine is apart they tell me it has a 4.2 oil filter connection?

[MichaelB]

Hello,
I also have a RHD 3.8 FHC with the immediately preceding chassis number #861772. It was imported new to Australia in August 1964, and now resides in Melbourne. I have owned it since 2015. My research shows that it was also opalescent Golden Sand when it was new (now it is Old English White, with french blue leather interior). Its features are pretty original (I am told by fellow e-type members of Jag Car Club Victoria), and it is in good driveable condition. Since owning it, I have done about 9,000 miles in 4.5 years, including 4 trips to Tasmania, to follow the Targa classic car rally.

It has had a number of mods - such as upgraded fan, Cooper Craft brakes, electronic ignition, new external fuel pump, LED dashboard instrument lighting. It is now negative earth, but still has the DC dynamo generator.

Regards
Michael Brown.

[chrisfell]

“Maybe they did just grab whatever part was nearest, and slap it on???”

Yup, that’s pretty much what happened, especially in the early days when the factory were desperate to get cars out of the door. (Source of this information is someone who was there, then.)

However that doesn’t mean that any particular car did come out of the factory with the parts it now sports. I was confused over my car’s Girling brakes, when they weren’t fitted to Es until the S2 was produced about a year later, not even to 1.5s. let alone my late-ish S1. Far from being a factory fit, it seems my brakes were a PO fit. And second hand fit at that, from more than one original car, as I later discovered.