Necessary Upgrades???

[stradman]

Ok guys need some advice from wiser ones on this forum. I have been driving my 3.8(has only done about 1000 miles since restoration) now for about a couple of months(just sunny days really). I do not plan on doing any grand tours with it.

As mentioned in other posts I had mapped out in my mind what upgrades I was going to do, based on all the research I have done and some of my initial observations(including gearbox, ignition, alternator, brake and suspension upgrade). But now I am not so sure any more. Now I may be lucky(or my car is very sorted) I don't know or it may be a temporary thing, but I need to know what I really need to change. The reason I am asking is because I am planning to ship the car down to my place in the med for the next year or so(hopefully I will get more use over there because of the weather) and where I do not know(yet) any jaguar specialist.

It will still be my occasional car. As I said initially I thought I should change gearbox, but truly I am getting the hang of this restored Moss box and now seldom crunch. So maybe I wont change it. I need to know what I really should change. Car goes and handles very well at the moment really. I am just being cautious as the car will go abroad for a year or so and so I want it to be as reliable as possible. It has had an upgraded radiator and kenlowe fan. That's it. Do you all think that I definitely need to change my dynamo(it is obviously new from resto) and maybe electronic ignition just to be on the safe side? Or do you think that if everything is working ok, leave well alone as it could happily continue to function reasonably reliably for the next couple of years?
As brakes are new, but original, I can live with these, they seem to function adequately.
Interested to hear what would you all do in these circumstances?
Thanks

[MarkE]

To take one extreme view, what?s the point of buying a 1960s icon, with all it?s idiosyncrasies, and remove the period features that may now be seen as tiresome and potentially troublesome? Surely they are all part of the charm and interest of an old car? We?ve all driven modern, fast and capable cars, where the car flatters to deceive, and driving the thing feels more like being an observer, rather than using any sort of skill or judgement to get the best out of it.

Upgrading an old car can certainly detract from it?s original character, and if taken too far, must surely change the car into some sort of modern hybrid driving machine?why not get rid of the inefficient 1940s XK engine and fit a more modern supercharged Jag V8, or a BMW Turbo Diesel with 7 speed autobox? Faster, more relaxing to drive and far more economical after all.

The driving experience in a well setup but standard E Type is phenomenal, with the raw excitement of driving delivered at lower, more usable speeds on the road than the modern equivalent.

A couple of chums of mine have some pretty focused views on this sort of subject. One uses a 1923 Vauxhall 30/98 pretty much every day?for work, shopping and holidays. It took him the best part of a year to learn how to drive it properly, with the external lever crash box and the brake pedal where the accelerator should be. For him, that?s part of the challenge and pleasure of running an old car. The only ?upgrade? he?s considered so far has been to fit indicators, but so far he?s resisted. The second chap runs a completely standard Elan, and has done everyday for 32 years. It?s now coming up for 750,000 miles on the clock. He?s not about to change anything either.

For me the terms ?upgrade? or ?improvement? is a much misused term with Classic or Vintage cars?they are what they are, and that?s all part of the pleasure of owning and running one. A sporty Ford Focus will run rings around a standard E Type in acceleration, top end, cornering, comfort and economy. So is the aim of upgrading an E Type to make it as good as a Focus!?

But when does an E Type become just another easy to use hybrid that looks like an E Type? Upgraded brakes? 5 or 6 speed gearbox? Big wheels / sticky tyres? Supercharged V8 Jag engine? Air conditioning? Of course there?s no right or wrong; we?re all different, and all have the cars for different reasons, and there are plenty to go around and do with as we wish.

I just have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that to change the specification of a car like an E Type to make it easier to use, or more relaxing, or the worst of all reasons ?to cope with modern traffic? may just be taking something away from the experience.

Nothing controversial here then!

[stradman]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the comments. I agree with some of the points. The main point is however there is nothing honourable or glorious in stalling or spluttering in the middle of a traffic jam just for the sake of owning a "classic" car.

I agree that if you want to change all the dynamic issues such as the handling and braking, then maybe you should consider a more modern car. Having said that there are a great many people out there(I am among them) who just feel that the e-type is one of the most beatiful cars to ever hit our streets. Nonetheless many of those same people, who have been accustomed to modern machinery over the years, just can't come to terms with all the "old school" foibles of the original e-type. Is it so wrong for those same people to say, "well we now have the technology to improve the car dynamically and at the same time I can enjoy that beautiful shape" I don't think so. At what point people stop their upgrades is a personal and individual choice.

I personally feel that you can still retain the essence and the feel of an e-type by installing some sympathetic upgrades. As I said in my initial post, I am coming to terms reasonably well with the dynamics. I just need to ask for the sake of reliability, and in practical terms, what would be the best upgrade.

I am sure you friend with the '23 Vauxhall is probably a colourful character. And it maybe he still has an ice box in the kitchen and doesnt have any central heating or a flush toilet in his house either in order to complete his 20's feel to his life. Hey that's fine by me if that's what he likes. However it doesnt mean everyone else is wrong by going more modern. :)

[daverawle]

I agree with Mark, to a point, it is what it is. Then again it?s your car and it can be what you want, play with it as much as you like - it still won?t be a Ford Focus or bear any resemblance to a modern car, you?ll never take the E-Type out of it. So I think there is no reason to struggle to maintain purity of the mark, make it so you enjoy it. To enjoy it, it should be reliable and function under modern driving conditions, so stopping is a definite plus as is adequate cooling as you plan on using it in southern Europe.

This was a relatively cheap car aimed at a mass American market almost 50 years ago so there is no reason to think it cannot be improved. Sir William would have done it if the technology were available and the market could have stood it.

To get to the point; the electrics were not great so:
A modern fuel pump is worth considering.
Headlights were poor so fit halogen.
Cooling was an issue; you have a modern fan combined with new headlights so an alternator seems a sensible addition.
If it won?t stop like a modern car you must do something about the brakes, this is not optional!!!

Apart from that enjoy your car; they certainly grow on you the more you use them.

Dave (who's still trying to decide if he's improved his car or ruined it)

:D

[Heuer]

Alex

As your stated 'intended use' is for local trips in Mediterranean climes I would keep the car as standard as possible. You do not need a five speed box, higher ratio diff or any of the other things developed for long distance cruising. Your attention should be focussed on the long periods of inactivity and ensuring the car runs when you want it to. First up must be an electronic SU pump as the original points one does not like sitting around. Easy and cost effective to do. Next would be a 123 distributor to ensure you have the best possible spark for starting. Whilst you are away have the car plugged into a battery conditioner/trickle charger. I have found the CTEK XS7000 to be excellent in this regard. People worry about the E-Types brakes but this really depends on your driving style. If you drive very fast and brake at the last moment then a set of Zeus calipers, Greenstuff pads and a later servo would be a good idea. If you intend some local relaxed cruising, read the road and use the gears the standard system will work for you. Basically if you have already scared yourself in the car, change the brakes. If you are aware and comfortable with the limitations keep them as they are.

Summer in the Med means high temperatures, especially if you are caught in local traffic. If you do not already have one a Kenlowe fan brings peace of mind but you will need an alternator. They do one now that is both +ve earth and looks just like a dynamo. Add some Water Wetter for good measure. Depending on which country you are in the condition of the roads could cause concern and sidewall damage or grounding. I would get rid of the low profile tyres and fit Michelin XVS 185's which will give you an extra 1" of ground clearance, better ride and lighter steering. It will also return the car's dynamics to the way Jaguar intended - if you want the 'original' experience, might as well go the whole hog. The XVS's will fit on your (6" IIRC) rims without problem.

Finally I would fit Kool-mat to the interior. Having experienced driving my car in 40c temperatures around Biarritz it was the first thing I did when I got back. Makes the interior a tolerable place to be even on the hottest days. There is a thread and link for it on the Upgrades part of the Forum. Whilst the car is standing increase the tyre pressure and move it backwards and forwards a few inches (by hand) to avoid flat spots. If humidity is a problem in winter put it in a Carcoon.

Edit: the replacement alternator is this one: http://www.powerlite-units.com/dynalite.htm They now do a +ve earth one to save the hassle of changing the car over (albeit a relatively simple job - let me know if you need details) model no. C45 I think. SNG stock and sell them.

[Moeregaard]

OK, here's my short list. Since I like to use E-Types on road trips, where a variety of driving conditions are encountered, my "sensible" modifications include the following:

1. Alternator. Both of my E-Types have been 4.2-liter cars, making this a non-issue, but the 3.8-litre's generator was never really up to the task. For the record, I see nothing wrong with the Lucas 11AC alternator, if it is rebuilt properly.

2. Improved radiator fan. I fitted a 12" Durale fan to my '65 and my current '66 has a CoolCat unit. I prefer the CoolCat because it bolts directly to the factory mount and integrates nicely with the radiator shroud. I've never liked any fan that is strapped directly to the radiator core. I also use water wetter in my coolant.

3. H4 headlamps. For years the U.S. lagged behind the rest of the world by mandating sealed-beam lamps, the H4's being legal only for motorcycles. When I fitted my first pair of H4's in 1982 I could not believe the improvement. The headlight covers scatter much of the light, so more is always better. The stock alternator had no trouble driving the 55/65-watt bulbs.

4. Brakes. I must be in the minority because I never thought the early 4.2's brakes were all that bad. I did have problems with seizing pistons until I sleeved the cylinders with stainless steel. A worthwhile modification that is also reasonably priced.

5. Heatproofing. Anything to reduce cockpit heat is an improvement. The exhaust heat shields that reside over the under-floor silencers should be in place and Kool Mat installed. I also ensure that all holes between the engine and people compartments are plugged. Another common point of entry for heat is where the handbrake cable enters the car. The rubber grommet is often missing and a surprising amount of hot air can enter through this area.

[stradman]

Thanks for the suggestions. Can I ask does anyone have any experience with the dynalite alternator that look like a dynamo? They seem like a good option. One question I have is what is inherintly wrong witht they dynamo. It's not like there are huge demands on the electrical system anyway. But does anyone consider or have any reliability issues with retaining the dynamo? BTW my car has been converted to negative earth already. Any thoughts on that.

[andyp]

It's not like there are huge demands on the electrical system anyway

Put a multimeter on an electric cooling fan and then have another think.

I've no first hand experience of the alternator in a dynamo but my local XK/E Type man seems to like them. Mind you at that price you've got to really like th look of a dynamo.

Andy

[Moeregaard]

The dynamo is pretty well tasked when you consider that it may be called upon to power the headlamps, radiator fan, heater blower, stereo and whatever you've got plugged into the cigar lighter. By themselves, the dynamo is capable of doing the job, but if you're idling through traffic on a cold, foggy night with everything running you may flatten the battery. Not the best thing when you're out with the girlfriend or wife. An alternator will run all this stuff AND maintain the battery's charge.

Converting to negative ground allows you to install modern accessories without having to isolate their chassis or make other arrangements to avoid letting their smoke out. It also keeps the tow-truck driver from becoming confused when he has to jump your dynamo-equipped car on that cold, foggy night

All joking aside, any car I intend to use on a regular basis will have an alternator installed. If I were showing the car in concours events I would obviously retain the dynamo and live with its shortcomings. I have seen the dynamo containing the guts of an alternator, and it looks promising, but it's also beyond my budget.

[kingzetts]

My 3.8 came with a 5-speed, Zeus front calipers and 4.2 servo, alternator and electric fan and halogen headlamps already fitted. Although this was by chance, all of these would be on my list of "first choice" improvements and I certainly wouldn't for a moment consider changing them back to original.

Beyond that about the only thing I would change would be to add electronic ignition (probably 123 which seems well-regarded), and to change the fuel pump if, when I get round to checking, it is still the old SU type. So in other words, pretty much the same list as most people.

For UK all-round use I have a couple of other things I'd sort - replacing the washer pump with a decent modern one (Dave Rawle has a good example approach on his blog, I did something similar) and to make sure the heater/demister system is working as well as it can. I'm considering (but have not yet researched) a more powerful heater blower. But you won't have to worry about that in the south of France! Conversely I haven't yet felt the need for extra heat insulation - we don't seem to have summers here any more!

After that it boils down, as others have said, to personal preference.

[Heuer]

One question I have is what is inherintly wrong witht they dynamo. It's not like there are huge demands on the electrical system anyway. But does anyone consider or have any reliability issues with retaining the dynamo?

The Dynalite alternator is expensive, but well regarded, and designed to retain the look of the dynamo. SNG can supply a more onventional alternator if you don't want to go to the cost of the Dynalite. The main reason for fitting an alternator is the huge demand from the Kenlowe fan, which draws something like 60 amps on startup. Unfortunately this is most likely to happen when the car is stuck in traffic; at tick-over a dynamo produces next to no charge (alternator produces constant charge regardless of revs, dynamo produces charge proportional to revs). One word of warning though - do not go mad and specify a huge modern one with a high output unless you are prepared to change part of the cars wiring as it is not rated beyond about 75 amps. One of the S1 4.2 ones will be perfect: http://www.sngbarratt.com/catalogue/parts/search.asp

Changing over to an alternator is a 30 minute job so do not even think about not doing it. Personally I would go for the Dynalite to retain the original look of the car.

Going back to the brakes for a moment it is worth noting that wide low profile modern tyres have a road contact area of about 8" whereas the original spec tyres have a 4" contact patch. The friction generated by the bigger tyres will very quickly overwhelm the original braking system - like the rest of the car it was not designed for this rubber. So if you are going to retain the fat tyres you most definitely need to upgrade the braking system. It is my belief that this where the E-Type's brakes have got the bad reputation from - owners putting wider wheels and tyres on.

[stradman]

Thanks a bunch for all the insight. You guys are all stars! It really helps when others give advice based on their experience.
So my final thoughts are in terms of upgrades and which I will go with are:
1. Dynalite alternator conversion(I like the original look)
2. Electronic ignition
3. Brake caliper and servo upgrade
4. And i think the 5 speed as well(I am experiencing problems far too often in engaging 3rd and which I can't hack-spoils the driving fun!).
5. Cool mat
6. And maybe that shiny header tank that I saw from someones link on another forum-did look great, (god I'm a tart!)

I already have an SU electronic upgraded fuel pump.
Thanks again

[MarkE]

Well, guys, I totally failed to ignite a heated ?originality? debate with my provocative remarks?obviously there aren?t any originality buffs on the forum yet, or they?re keeping their powder dry.

I agree with the findings of the contributors, and indeed have all the mods identified fitted on my S1, except the 5 speed box. I?m pretty certain that if I had a Moss box, or my 4 speed played up, it would be replaced by a 5 speed as well. And I do like the wide wheels, for aesthetic reasons if nothing else.

Although it was an S1 grouping, it?s interesting that nobody piped up with mods required for the S3?perhaps it?s already perfect, with the wider wheels, excellent cooling system, alternator and decent brakes. Ooops, trying to get another debate going now! The S3 doesn?t seem to get warm footwells like the S1, which may be down to a pressed-asbestos thingee between the gearbox and shell. But given the size of the engine, with manifolds and exhausts both sides, I find this quite surprising.

Now, Mr Stradman, regarding my chum with the Vauxhall. He designs control systems for NASA, and his home is a showpiece for integrated heat, A/C, security, light, audio, video and computer technologies?it?s like something out of the Jetsons. He is undoubtedly strange, and I think that the Vauxhall is his reality check! There?s another chap in a similar line who plays with steam traction engines?there must be some connection somewhere.

Meanwhile?I want my S1 back to play with!!!!

[Heuer]

6. And maybe that shiny header tank that I saw from someones link on another forum-did look great, (god I'm a tart!)

Cambridge Motor Sports: http://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/Cool ... ader-Tanks