Lower Steering Column Yoke

Talk about the E-Type Series 1

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Robert Scarlett
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#1 Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by Robert Scarlett » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:53 pm

Hello,

I have a problem with my lower steering column yoke I refurbished the steering column shaft some five years ago and it?s been on the shelf since in the un-clamped position.
I am now at the stage of refitting the column to the car and this is my problem, the yoke slides onto the splines of the steering rack pinion shaft nicely with a bit of ?rock? I then tighten down the cap screw aligning with the recess on the pinion shaft the cap screw tightens up but does not seem to clamp onto the splines at all, even when tight it still ?rocks? slightly on the shaft. I have had it out again on the bench and can confirm that on the side that the countersunk capscrew head is situated there is clearance between the screw neck and the hole so it?s not binding and keeping the two sides apart, it just refuses to tighten up.
I see no wear on the male splines of the steering rack pinion or on the female splines inside of the yoke I have put it in the vice and still it doesn?t seem to clamp.
I have tried to buy a new one from all the usual specialists but this part 8699 is now discontinued and no alternative offered.
Has anyone had experience of this problem or can offer advice on the subject?
Richard Smith has four used yokes in stock but are all slightly worn he will have some refurbished items by the end of January, his advice was try and pinch it in a big vice and assemble it with locktight.
All thoughts welcomed.

Thanks in advance

Robert.
1964 S1 3.8 FHC

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ChrisC
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#2

Post by ChrisC » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:58 pm

I am advised that this is fairly common and I got around it by tweaking it shut very slightly in a vice (as you suggest) and using a high tensile nut and bolt so that it had more grunt. The fix seems to have worked and the MOT man was happy with it
1964 FHC 4.2
My Etype restoration progress www.connor.org.uk

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Robert Scarlett
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#3

Post by Robert Scarlett » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:25 am

Thanks Chris,

I pinched the yoke in the vice and it does clamp down about 0.7mm so it is moving. When I try to tighten it up with the capscrew it only pull it about 0.3mm...I did note your advice on the bolt material, I have been using stainless steel so I have now ordered high tensile bolts for me to try again.

Failing this does the later series two steering column fit the series one part number C20487 ? I see that it has a shaft with splines on both ends one to match up with the upper uv joint and presumably a lower uv joint to fit the splines on the steering rack? has anyone any thoughts?

Thanks

Robert.
1964 S1 3.8 FHC

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ChrisC
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#4

Post by ChrisC » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:15 pm

Ah a subtlety, I drilled out the thread the capscrew fits into and fitted a nut and bolt, the thread in my yoke was not very good so I didnt have much option. Consider it as a last resort though...

At least i think it was the yoke that i did this to. I'll take a look.
1964 FHC 4.2
My Etype restoration progress www.connor.org.uk

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danxke
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#5 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:08 am

Hi there,

my yoke has exactly the same issue! The splines don't really show excessive wear, so I would assume that the play was tolerated during manufacturing period.

In any case, a fellow member from "the other forum" pointed to a similar issue with MGA steering yokes and a service bulleting from that period which deals with "light slackness", see it here:

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/care/csm/mg214.pdf

Did any body go that road?

Greetings
Dan

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44DHR
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#6 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by 44DHR » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am

Robert, (Just noticed that this was a post originally from 2012 - so hopefully Robert sorted it).
It does seem a common issue. An interesting solution in drilling the joint gap, but I would worry about any potential weakening of a vital steering component. I replaced my loose lower joint - the silver painted one in the photos below - at some point in the past.
I had managed to buy a couple of joints which had the recessed bolt section on one end and the conventional though bolt on the other. By separating the recessed bolt half, I fitted that part onto my Series 1 long steering shaft which has the u/j part forged on the end of the shaft - rather then having a shaft with splines on each end.
Looking at the recessed bolt section, it is much more “rounded” in profile and my understanding was that the recessed bolt end was to give clearance against the “picture frame”. Therefore, I guess you could use a conventional nut and bolt end, but this must not protrude too far at either end otherwise it will foul the frame.
I fully agree with using a high tensile bolt as the use of stainless steel into other materials can cause problems with binding as the stainless thread tends to be more coarse in the material and can jam. The stainless Allen head screw is just fitted in the photo for storage to fill the thread. Besides the high tensile bolt can give a much tighter fastening.

Image

Image

Image

Regards,
Dave
Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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danxke
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#7 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:19 pm

Hello Dave,
I had managed to buy a couple of joints which had the recessed bolt section on one end and the conventional though bolt on the other.
This appears to be a viable way! From your observations, where does the play come from: the splines on the yoke or on the steering rack pinion? The silver yoke seems to have a larger diameter, but this can be subjective.

Can you remember the part number of the new u-joint unit that replaced the worn yoke?

I'd be really glad to get one of these!

regards
Dan

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abowie
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#8 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by abowie » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:19 pm

The play is usually on the pinion because the silly Allan head capscrew doesn't allow enough torque to hold it. What you get it a small amount of slack turning the steering wheel, which is most evident and most annoying when driving at highway speed.

I have had success Dremelling the slot a little wider, drilling out the hole and fitting a grade 8 HT 1/4" bolt and Nyloc nut. Then tightening it to 20 or 25 lbft. I stripped a few bolts but it eventually works.

There is room to do this without fouling if you are careful. You could also Loctite the lower splines although I have not done this.

I also tried threading the knuckle for 1/4" but this inevitably stripped out. I tried making a bush to fit in the recess for the capscrew too but probably wasn't using hard enough material.

In the end the through bolt won the day.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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danxke
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#9 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke: anybody using an aftermarket yoke?

Post by danxke » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:53 am

Hi there,

thank you for the input sofar. Although I am a bit reluctant to drill or saw into the knuckle...

Dave's approach to buy joints that have the recessed bolt and to use the lower half of it, doesn't seem to work out for me because the "usuals" don't offer that part...

But they offer a repro part that attaches between the pinion and the _splined_ steering column: C28599 (e.g.
https://www.jagshop.co.uk/shop/product/ ... bly-c28599).

Well, I could turn my steering column upside down: this gives me a splined lower steering column where I can attach the aftermarket u-joint, and I can replace the worn out yoke (with the recession for the bold) with a yoke that I can cramp with a nut and bolt (because at the upper end I don't have clearance issues).

But this would only work out if:
a) C28599 fits to the splined half of my early steering column and
b) C28599 doesn't foul with my picture frame when turing the steering wheel.

Does anybody here use that aftermarket part? (C28599,
https://www.jagshop.co.uk/shop/product/ ... bly-c28599)?

thank you all
Dan

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danxke
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#10 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:31 am

Politeperson has posted the OE and aftermarket parts side-by-side:

Image

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44DHR
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#11 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by 44DHR » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:37 am

Dan,
I don’t have a part number for the two joints that I bought as it was through EBay many years ago. They were just advertised as lower steering joints - so I just bought them up as I knew the recessed part was obsolete.
You may have point on which part would wear first - the splines on the yoke or the steering rack pinion - as I guess they are different materials. The yoke looks cast or forged, but the pinion is machined from steel.
I have just remembered that I bought a “sports rack upgrade” rack and pinion set from Kiley-Clinton Engineering at great expense back in 2014 for £313.20, comprising the long rack, the now 8 toothed, (as originally fitted to the E Type rather than the standard 7 tooth fitted from September/October 1965) pinion, plus all the seats, slipper pad, bush and tab washers. Now I have found it, I really must get round to fitting it !
I just put both my old yoke and a replacement yoke onto the new K-C splines and both were a good fit. I then remember that I had also changed out the old yoke as it had damage to the circlip mounting surface.
I still believe a lot of the issue is - as Andrew stated - the inability for the small 1/4 inch UNF (?) Allen headed screw to fully clamp the yoke.
Regards,
Dave

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Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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danxke
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#12 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:28 pm

Hello Dave,
you wrote "good fit", this means you cannot turn the yoke even if the pinch screw is away?
Could you do me a favour and measure the outer diameter of the pinion and the inner dia of the yokes?

I cannot turn my yoke by hand but it is rocking up and down on the shaft (and ofcourse sliding forth and back).

greetings from Germany
Dan

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#13 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by 44DHR » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:04 am

Dan,
Without the securing screw, the pinion fits into the yoke and will not turn around.
I had packed away the pinion in grease, but these are the best dimensions I could get.
18.78 mm as the overall diameter to the outside of the splines on the pinion and 18.07 mm as the minimum figure in the bore of the yoke - i.e. to the top of the internal splines.
Regards,
Dave

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Dave Rose
1967 Series 1 4.2 FHC

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#14 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:39 am

Hello Dave,
thank for the measurement! This will help me a lot.
Kind regards
Dan

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#15 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke - bit of progress - and a question!

Post by danxke » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:15 pm

Hi there,

I started working on getting rid of the loose fitting of the lower steering yoke on the steering rack pinion.
Stage 1: remove the old allen screw.

I managed to remove the allen screw of the lower half of the yoke (the upper half of the yoke is integral part of the steering column, remember!). Since the head of the screw was really worn out, I've ordered a new one from SNG, which is manufactured from "FKE" in Taiwan. While the threads of the old and the one are identical, and both accept the same 3/16" allen key, the head of the new one is smaller - see the attached foto.

Note: even without the screw, the yoke didn't turn on the pinion, which is good!



Stage 2: remove the sloppiness

Well, this seems to be the hard part, and a couple of workarounds have been proposed here.
I noticed that the sloppliness decreases if I slide the yoke further forward on the pinion. Of course the screw and the recess in the pinion must be aligned. But I could gain a couple of millimeters compared to what I had before. On that "forward-position" the slopiness has decreased, but it is still there.

Then I screwed the new allen screew into the yoke, just to see what I can achieve with the untouched head of the new allen screw.

To make it short: I took my socket wrench with an extension and turned the new screw in until to a point where I felt comfortable - unfortunately the yoke didn't compress at all at that point - and can still slide back and forth on the pinion.

Question to you guys: the manual doesn't provide a min/max torque for the allen screw...what is your guess, how far can I go??

thanks again!
Dan
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#16 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke - updte

Post by danxke » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:46 am

Hello all,

just a quick update:

I've extracted the steering column from the car in order to inspect the splines on the yoke:
- foto 1 shows the splines of the lower yoke: Image
- foto 2 shows the yoke on the upper-end of the steering column:
Image
- foto 3: splines on the pinion look good, too: Image

Both yokes are missing a number of splines; it appears that they are left out intentionally... and this is probably not the reason for the excessive play of the lower yoke on the pinion.

I gave the lower yoke a couple of blows with a hammer to decrease it's gap :seeingstars:

Apparently this did the trick: I was able to squeeze the yoke with the allen screw to avoid that it slides the steering rack pinion back and forth. I can still rock the yoke a bit up and down on the end of the pinion and
the play on the steering wheel didn't fully go away but it is tolerable now...at least to my standards ;-) :swerve:

I think this case is closed now :fingerscrossed:

regards
Dan

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#17 Re: Lower Steering Column Yoke

Post by danxke » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:51 am

PS: wrt the maximum torque the allen screw can bear... well, at a certain point the allen key started to turn in the head of the screw :sad: despite a new screw and a new key... :banghead:

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